View Full Version : So you're GF....
stroker
02-13-08, 01:43 PM
What do you do? Seriously. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt that's he's waking up at night from a dead sleep screaming "FTG! FTG!"
What's your plan for the season, even losing NHL, et al....? Fund the whole frikkin' grid? Allow Reynards and Lolas to run with the DP-01?
If you're a team owner what do you do?
One series owner is gone, off earling. How would you explain all this to your sponsor (if you have one)? When do you jump...if ever? Wacked.. :\
Crack open the Exit Strategy Guidebook.
"In case of earlmergency, break glass."
Right now, my guess, is whomever is running this donkey show, they're trying to get out of contracts with venues, suppliers, porta-john suckers, etc.
That's why Higdon said. "We're proceeding with our plans and will keep operating as Champ Car."
Until we can cover our ass and pre-empt the lawsuits.
THIS ^^^^ is the only thing that makes any sense right now. And you can always count on the CCWS PTB to make perfect sense.:D
Sean Malone
02-13-08, 02:09 PM
Hi, I'm GF. I was too busy to show up to last years races so I have no problem selling the series. I'd like to get something from the idiot grandson so at least this thing wasn't a total bust. I sent an email to Tony, Panoz, NASCAR and a few billionaire Arabian oil guys asking them all to send an offer.
If they don't hit my numbers, I think I have some old Lola's I'll let anyone interested use so that I can at least get 17 back on the grid.
I forgot, am I a partner with KK in Pi and Cosworth or was that him by himself?
Now, don't bother me anymore, I'm too rich to answer questions and I have to get back to eating caviar off of my hot wife's ^%%. I do have a hot wife right?
I'd do what should have been done last year and in the years before that. Invest enough money in the series to assure a kick ass season and leave the IRL to wander around in the shoaling waters of The Vision.
Insomniac
02-13-08, 02:21 PM
I imagine the first thing anyone has to figure out is how to get 16 cars on the grid for the races given many contracts require it.
cameraman
02-13-08, 02:29 PM
I would think that if you handed Derek Walker the funds that he would happily race. Same for Rocketsports, Minardi, Coyne, PCM & Conquest. Add in his own team you get 14 cars. So he would have to come up with two/four more cars. It could be done. If Forsythe really wants to, CCWS could run 2008.
Seems a bit insane to me but it is possible.
Seems a bit insane to me but it is possible.He's done LOTS of insane stuff before, hell, he gave PT a 5 year contract!
:runs:
Methanolandbrats
02-13-08, 02:51 PM
I would think that if you handed Derek Walker the funds that he would happily race. Same for Rocketsports, Minardi, Coyne, PCM & Conquest. Add in his own team you get 14 cars. So he would have to come up with two/four more cars. It could be done. If Forsythe really wants to, CCWS could run 2008.
Seems a bit insane to me but it is possible.
Maybe he'll run the thing ALONE the way a racing series should be run. Hell, Panoz did it and he's celebrating 10 years :)
cameraman
02-13-08, 02:56 PM
He has no place to go but up.:rolleyes:
Sean Malone
02-13-08, 03:02 PM
Maybe he'll run the thing ALONE the way a racing series should be run. Hell, Panoz did it and he's celebrating 10 years :)
Which is great...if he has a grid of cars. Sure it may be 'possible', but I don't see CC taking the green at LB if the teams that say they are bailing, actual bail.
In my honest opinion, I think ‘they’ should have been trying to get the two cars compatible to run together years ago. With electronic rev limiters and popoff valves and ballest etc I don’t see where the problem is. It’s not like they are a hay wagon and a firetruck, they are both open wheel formula cars. That way they could have had combined events like LB and OZ and then gone on to do individual events separately until a single car, schedule and organization could be hammered out. Actually, what’s wrong with having two different chassis and engines? Nah, that’s too much like ‘real racing’.
Forsythe is gonna fix it all. :tony:
Including winning all the races. :irked:
Jer Bear is probably going to head to his house downstate and hit a few balls on his private golf course and think about this issue about 90% less than most of us will.
http://www.thegolfermag.com/f_canyata.html
Insomniac
02-13-08, 09:30 PM
Which is great...if he has a grid of cars. Sure it may be 'possible', but I don't see CC taking the green at LB if the teams that say they are bailing, actual bail.
In my honest opinion, I think ‘they’ should have been trying to get the two cars compatible to run together years ago. With electronic rev limiters and popoff valves and ballest etc I don’t see where the problem is. It’s not like they are a hay wagon and a firetruck, they are both open wheel formula cars. That way they could have had combined events like LB and OZ and then gone on to do individual events separately until a single car, schedule and organization could be hammered out. Actually, what’s wrong with having two different chassis and engines? Nah, that’s too much like ‘real racing’.
Isn't that what the 3.5NA engines were about? To get the formulas similar so a merger wouldn't have so many things to work out? All of us know with all the contracts they can't become one overnight. It takes an actual plan, but there appears to be so much idiocy and "what's best for me" that they have to work out a deal in minutes and get it done the next day before they realize they can screw everything up more.
Fund the whole grid. Say FTG. Go to the grave with a smile on your face.
The only other alternative is to leave your money to your kids or starving African kids. **** that. Oprah can feed the whole fricken continent. Drop the flag.
Isn't that what the 3.5NA engines were about? To get the formulas similar so a merger wouldn't have so many things to work out? All of us know with all the contracts they can't become one overnight. It takes an actual plan, but there appears to be so much idiocy and "what's best for me" that they have to work out a deal in minutes and get it done the next day before they realize they can screw everything up more.
Maybe they can switch to 3.5 Cossies this year and get MG to badge them again. Call it the Chapter 11 World Series.
stroker
02-13-08, 10:18 PM
Okay, bear with me for a second.
I think if you're GF/Panoz, you've got to be hard up on it to come up with the Answer to the Question, unless you're willing to pay the money just to annoy TG. I don't think that's the case. GF (and anyone else on board financially with CCWS Version 3.0) is going to have to look at the situation and come up with a blank sheet of paper to solve the problem.
What are your primary problems? I see them as
Car Count
Cost to the Teams
Acquisition of Sponsors
Quality of the racing
Getting Fans in the seats.
The solution to the first three items is reduced cost, IMHO. No new team is going to sign on to the series while using the DP-01 without G-Fare, and (I doubt) he can't afford it. The teams can't run the series for $3mil with $1mil sponsorship. They can't find sponsors until their operating cost is down.
They need quality racing that'll help the fan nucleus get energized for the future. I think the Net Fans will respond (albeit lukewarmly) to ANY significant effort to solve the problems the series faces. We're a fairly forgiving bunch if we can see them doing SOMETHING to keep the series viable.
The DP-01 was intended to be a smaller, lighter, nimbler car, right? Cheaper to own and operate? There's no question that it was a step in the right direction in MY mind, it's just that it was a Band-Aid on a bullet wound. It simply wasn't even close enough to solving the economic problems facing the series.
Here's my humble suggestion. Suspend the DP-01 for the foreseeable future. Call Cosworth and send a missile: We need a turbo kit (and transmission if necessary) to up the HP by about 200hp for the Atlantic car and we adopt that as the CC car for the next year or two, minimum. In one fell swoop, we solve the car count, the cost to enter, the cost to run (and by extension the ability for sponsors to significantly support the teams). GF pays the hardware cost of the upgrade kits and distributes them free to all the Atlantic teams.
To me, this addresses a number of marketing issue, too. It'll be a hell of a lot easier for the teams to find sponsors for $1 mil than $3mil. The continued existence of a VIABLE CCWS presents a significant thorn in the side of TG. It's a chance to promote new talent. The downside is that the series loses the "Big Car" angle at the cost of continuing the show.
The only significant practical problem that I see is that the Atlantics don't have long enough legs to run CC-length races. Am I correct in that Atlantics don't have quick-fill hardware? If that can't be fitted, then the idea's toast.
Yes, I know it's a weak sister car combo for the Nucleus fans. Screw that. We're on life support and we've got to take it. NOBODY complains that the Atlantics don't put on a good show. It'll be a lot easier to buy Atlantics for the remaining CC Teams than to acquire DP-01s and pay G-Fare for new teams.
What do you do about the hole in the weekend schedule? Bring on a new support series, something using PonyCars (the new Mustang series is a possibility) or a new open-wheel class (maybe F-1000).
IMHO the only real "race" going on right now is to see which series can come up with an economic model that pays the bills. If Honda's leaving, that puts pressure on the TG. If GF has a say in how Cosworth is used, then that shuts them out. If the IRL can't (even with new teams from CC) develop enough cash flow (i.e. ratings) to pay for Dallaras and DP-01s then it's nothing more than an INCREASED drain on TG's cash. I don't see much alternative for GF, but if I were him, this is what I'd look at first.
Yah, I know. It'll never work. Flame on...
:(
Boatdesigner
02-13-08, 10:54 PM
I think he either has to write lots o' big checks or shut it down. If he's going to keep it running, I think he needs to abandon most of the street races and go back to racing on race tracks. Street courses are expensive to set up for the promoters and hard to turn a profit on when you are in rebuilding mode. Street courses also cause lots of damage to the cars from hitting walls and flying over RR tracks. The airports are probably OK as they aren't too expensive to set up and there isn't much to hit, other than one corner at each of the two airports. Plus they make for a good show.
I would also revisit the TV package and try to get the races back on Speed. I'd even take one of the other cable networks (USA?) over lousy network. Use the money you save for better production.
I don't think there is much they can do on the cars, other than allow teams to run Lolas again, that is if they can still get spare parts for them. Switching to the Atlantic cars with turbo'd engines could be a good idea. I wonder if manufacturers would be more likely to get involved supplying engines if they were small, turbo engines that bore some resemblance to what they sell in their road cars. I bet Honda would like something like that. That would take a couple years to develop though, leaving lots of check writing in the meantime.
Being that I am in one of the few businesses as dumb as racing, I am probably not the best person to give advice on how to make money!:D
Forsythe is gonna fix it all. :tony:
Including winning all the races. :irked:
You're thinking of Andy Evans, aren't you?
SurfaceUnits
02-14-08, 01:11 AM
I don't think there is much they can do on the cars, other than allow teams to run Lolas again, that is if they can still get spare parts for them. Switching to the Atlantic cars with turbo'd engines could be a good idea. I wonder if manufacturers would be more likely to get involved supplying engines if they were small, turbo engines that bore some resemblance to what they sell in their road cars. I bet Honda would like something like that. That would take a couple years to develop though, leaving lots of check writing in the meantime.
Mazda just developed - last year - a 2.0 or 2.3L 500 hp turbo 4 for I think their ALMS car. Would be a great Atlantics upgrade. Pretty much the same basic engine block.
Okay, bear with me for a second.
Here's my humble suggestion. Suspend the DP-01 for the foreseeable future. Call Cosworth and send a missile: We need a turbo kit (and transmission if necessary) to up the HP by about 200hp for the Atlantic car and we adopt that as the CC car for the next year or two, minimum. In one fell swoop, we solve the car count, the cost to enter, the cost to run (and by extension the ability for sponsors to significantly support the teams). GF pays the hardware cost of the upgrade kits and distributes them free to all the Atlantic teams.
To me, this addresses a number of marketing issue, too. It'll be a hell of a lot easier for the teams to find sponsors for $1 mil than $3mil. The continued existence of a VIABLE CCWS presents a significant thorn in the side of TG. It's a chance to promote new talent. The downside is that the series loses the "Big Car" angle at the cost of continuing the show.
The only significant practical problem that I see is that the Atlantics don't have long enough legs to run CC-length races. Am I correct in that Atlantics don't have quick-fill hardware? If that can't be fitted, then the idea's toast.
Yes, I know it's a weak sister car combo for the Nucleus fans. Screw that. We're on life support and we've got to take it. NOBODY complains that the Atlantics don't put on a good show. It'll be a lot easier to buy Atlantics for the remaining CC Teams than to acquire DP-01s and pay G-Fare for new teams.
What do you do about the hole in the weekend schedule? Bring on a new support series, something using PonyCars (the new Mustang series is a possibility) or a new open-wheel class (maybe F-1000).
:(
Yes I snipped your post but you make good points. Here's my take on them. Not that anyone cares.
CCWS is too costly to run for sponsor exposure. It needs to be about 2-2.5 mil a year to run a decent car and even that might be a challenge to get a real sponsor.
The .016 is a slightly lower quality, heavier F3 with more hp. Not the answer to replace the DP01 even as an emergency temp. Dallara has a real nice design, molds and parts inventory for a big car. Use the basic framework of the GP2 (same physical dimensions as an F1), retrofit a quick fill and if necessary strengthen the driveline to accommodate the extra 150hp to run the Cos XFE. Ditch the airbox for a roll hoop and you have a stopgap car that someone else paid for the development on that no one off a message board will know any better of. And by the way, those cars can run close together without much aero disturbance and make for entertaining racing. If you're just trying to survive you'll ignore the whining of hardcores bitching that its a glorified F3000 which is what the DP01 is anyway.
F1000 as a support? I like the idea but most of the competitors are already pissed about rising costs and pro drivers at the ARRC. Just add whatever is available for supports. The US formula car ladder system doesn't consistently bring along stars and the general public (the majority of ticket buyers) doesn't know it exists anyway. Winston Cup had Spec Racer Fords as a support race at Sears Point one year, they seem to have gotten along okay in spite of that. If it can get back to the 90s level of interest then focus on ladder series again. Til then, there is no point in a ladder if it only leads to ARCA.
Fund the whole grid. Say FTG. Go to the grave with a smile on your face.
The only other alternative is to leave your money to your kids or starving African kids. **** that. Oprah can feed the whole fricken continent. Drop the flag.
OK. :thumbup:
Can we get the fastest drivers money can buy?
...oh snap, SETUP II!
Laguna Seca Spring Training = time trials, fastest 18 are in!
Fund the whole grid. Say FTG. Go to the grave with a smile on your face.
The only other alternative is to leave your money to your kids or starving African kids. **** that. Oprah can feed the whole fricken continent. Drop the flag.
Fantasy world. I love it. :thumbup:
Do away with the Panoz, stick a big stock block, as in Dodge, Chevy or Ford, in the Atlantics, get a date at every natural terrain road course that will have you, say many rosaries.
Sean O'Gorman
02-14-08, 11:54 AM
I would follow the Grand-Am model and see what the potential competitors want.
Methanolandbrats
02-14-08, 12:20 PM
I would follow the Grand-Am model and see what the potential competitors want. IRL = Grand Am. Crap cars, nobody cares about it and their centerpiece is a once great event that is a shadow of itself.
Racing Truth
02-14-08, 12:26 PM
IRL = Grand Am. Crap cars, nobody cares about it and their centerpiece is a once great event that is a shadow of itself.
Fair points all.
Of course, GA has a business model that is consistent, while ALMS has a model based purely on the whims of mftrs. and the ACO. You tell me what makes more sense.
Methanolandbrats
02-14-08, 12:31 PM
Fair points all.
Of course, GA has a business model that is consistent, while ALMS has a model based purely on the whims of mftrs. and the ACO. You tell me what makes more sense. I don't know, but I'll tell ya which one I'll buy tickets for :D
I don't know, but I'll tell ya which one I'll buy tickets for :D
Exactly.
Sean O'Gorman
02-14-08, 12:38 PM
You, and like 350 others. If you are going to have a racing series that no one watches, might as well make it cheap and run it at real race tracks that don't cost alot to setup/teardown or to transport vehicles to.
That is ridiculous, SOG. ALMS has many fans, while Grand Am doesn't draw flies.
Sean O'Gorman
02-14-08, 12:52 PM
ALMSt doesn't have that many fans, and they don't have that many cars. And Champ Car can't rely on factory support to put together a grid. What's your point?
cameraman
02-14-08, 01:28 PM
That is ridiculous, SOG. ALMS has many fans, while Grand Am doesn't draw flies.
BS. Last year the ALMS race at MMP had roughly three times the spectators of the Grand Am race at MMP. I was at both. 5K vs 15k at best. Neither series can claim "many fans"
Methanolandbrats
02-14-08, 01:37 PM
BS. Last year the ALMS race at MMP had roughly three times the spectators of the Grand Am race at MMP. I was at both. 5K vs 15k at best. Neither series can claim "many fans"
15/5=300%...........which points out the difference between the two series. MMP is a sun-baked hell in the middle of nowhere...Road Atlanta, Road America and Sebring are much better attended. There will always be a market for high-tech road racing.
Sean O'Gorman
02-14-08, 02:14 PM
Neither series can claim "many fans"
You're thinking of Andy Evans, aren't you?
Just referring to what will happen first time there is a rule change. ;)
Fantasy world. I love it. :thumbup:
Why? It ain't about profit optimization and there never would've been a split in the first palce if Tony cared about making money. Tony paid for the first X years of the IRL. Gerry is richer, and his business is pumping out more cash.
Gerry might not be willing to spend a hundred million dollars just to piss off his inlaw, but he could if he wants to, and anyone who says he doesn't want to is full of crap. I have no clue what Jerry is thinking. If anyone does, they aren't talking.
robot9000
02-14-08, 05:40 PM
Fair points all.
Of course, GA has a business model that is consistent, while ALMS has a model based purely on the whims of mftrs. and the ACO. You tell me what makes more sense.
What exactly is the Grand Am business model?
I always thought it was just to get teams and sponsors to suck up to the fringe of the France Empire :cool:
cameraman
02-14-08, 05:48 PM
What exactly is the Grand Am business model?
That is one of the greatest mysteries of all time.
What exactly is the Grand Am business model?
1. Steal underwear
3. Make money
2. ????
:gomer:
-Kevin
Methanolandbrats
02-14-08, 06:12 PM
[QUOTE=robot9000;221751]What exactly is the Grand Am business model?[QUOTE]
Bolt a factory motor in a lump of **** and pretend it's IMSA.
nissan gtp
02-14-08, 06:48 PM
You, and like 350 others. If you are going to have a racing series that no one watches, might as well make it cheap and run it at real race tracks that don't cost alot to setup/teardown or to transport vehicles to.
watch Sebring on TV if your mom will let you. More people there than all the DP races for the whole year.
Winston Wolfe
02-14-08, 06:57 PM
watch Sebring on TV if your mom will let you. More people there than all the DP races for the whole year.
True dat !:thumbup:
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