View Full Version : The Rumor Mill; Portland Gone, NHLanigan Gone?
Sean Malone
10-02-07, 11:07 PM
Whispers in the wind...anyone hear it?
NHL: A wisp of smoke from an unreliable source here. But, damn, that would suck.
Portland: I hear the hail mary pass is in the air. 50/50 at best.
Who really knows now. Expect more of this: :(
Spicoli
10-03-07, 12:50 AM
NHL: A wisp of smoke from an unreliable source here. But, damn, that would suck.
Portland: I hear the hail mary pass is in the air. 50/50 at best.
Who really knows now. Expect more of this: :(
unreliable?
unreliable?
I didn't post anything about Portland, If it is true, I feel sorry for several teams that have supported the series, the ones that I really feel for are all of you guys that have kept the faith like I have for the other series, I have been told all my life, things happen for a reason:shakehead
ferrarigod
10-03-07, 02:21 AM
who's unreliable? robin or his biggest,,,, fan?
unreliable?
Late night drunkls produces interesting posting... :D
Spicoli
10-03-07, 07:57 AM
Late night drunkls produces interesting posting... :D
Sober as a Judge? :D
Sean Malone
10-03-07, 08:14 AM
I hate to admit this but when I read this rumor on another forum and resigned to the fact that NHL leaving could be the nail in the proverbial coffin, I was actually somewhat relieved. Kinda like when your favorite football team is getting crushed in the Super Bowl; it hurts until the last second ticks off the clock, but once it's over, it's over.
I still consider myself a fan of Champ Car, but to mirror another members comments yesterday (insomniac IRC) I've followed this season with an unparalleled apathy compared to years past. Hell, I think I watched more IRL races. I'm ready for one series so that I can focus all of my unbridled hate towards NASCAR. Although, why be an IndyCar fan when there's F1? Maybe to go to a race is all I can really think of.
^^^
I could not agree more.
unreliable?
Not you. Licker store gomer who knows I am a Champie and likes to rub my nose in it. Last time I saw him he could not shut up about Justin/CDW and NHL, all of whom, he says, are on their way to the IRL.
But this guy must be a TF'er, because he always is up on the latest moronic predictions from that crew.
But the CDW part sounds pretty credible. :irked:
I just went over to CCF to see if there was any other news, and they have locked their version of this thread, so perhaps someone would rather not see this discussion continue. [/tinfoil hat]
Insomniac
10-03-07, 09:16 AM
Whispers in the wind...anyone hear it?
N/H/L would be a weird one. Given Paul Newman's feelings toward TG/IRL and I'm not sure how they'd work out the Graham Rahal situation. Bobby has made it clear he does not want him in the IRL doing ovals.
I think the writing was on the wall for Portland, that won't surprise me. What would surprise me is a return to the Father's Day date and a shorter schedule. :)
Spicoli
10-03-07, 09:38 AM
Not you. Licker store gomer who knows I am a Champie and likes to rub my nose in it. Last time I saw him he could not shut up about Justin/CDW and NHL, all of whom, he says, are on their way to the IRL.
But this guy must be a TF'er, because he always is up on the latest moronic predictions from that crew.
But the CDW part sounds pretty credible. :irked:
Oh. OK. :D
Yeah, I feel ya. but I'm not sure Im gonna hate TG any less anyhow.
Boatdesigner
10-03-07, 10:53 AM
Losing NHL would be the death of the series. Portland will be kept on the schedule to give them something to cancel after the season starts. Portland is the new Ansan!:D
jonovision_man
10-03-07, 11:15 AM
Losing NHL would be the death of the series.
This series has survived bankruptcy, manufacturer exodus, team departures, crumbling events...
... something tells me the chequebook would come out and the series would still be there. I would think businessmen would be familiar with the saying "throwing good money after bad", but I just have this feeling in my gut that KK would keep going. He seems so deeply committed.
jono
Sean Malone
10-03-07, 11:22 AM
This series has survived bankruptcy, manufacturer exodus, team departures, crumbling events...
... something tells me the chequebook would come out and the series would still be there. I would think businessmen would be familiar with the saying "throwing good money after bad", but I just have this feeling in my gut that KK would keep going. He seems so deeply committed.
jono
I'm surprised at KK's commitment level since buying Champ Car. It's not like he was a GF type of long time team owner etc. They hit the ground running and made Tony nervous IMO, but really are just shooting themselves in the feet.
maybe they'll surprise us and turn around with a title sponsor, engaging schedule etc but I doubt it. Or if they do, will anyone believe them. Like the kid who cried wolf.
extramundane
10-03-07, 11:51 AM
This series has survived bankruptcy, manufacturer exodus, team departures, crumbling events...
But there were always other teams, other sponsors, etc. Now? Not so much. If, as is highly possible, we lose NHL, and CDW at the same time, that's 100% of CC's sponsorship consistency (not to mention likely 3 cars) gone in one fell swoop. The checkbook can come out all it wants, but it's not going to come close to filling the hole.
Andrew Longman
10-03-07, 12:10 PM
But there were always other teams, other sponsors, etc. Now? Not so much. If, as is highly possible, we lose NHL, and CDW at the same time, that's 100% of CC's sponsorship consistency (not to mention likely 3 cars) gone in one fell swoop. The checkbook can come out all it wants, but it's not going to come close to filling the hole.
Perhaps more imporatantly, if NHL leaves it will remove the last big piece of the CART legacy (with apologies to Walker and GF) from CC and place it with the rest in the IRL.
IRL becomes CART and CC becomes, well, something else. Something to be confused with A1GP more than something confused with the IRL. With few races in the US and none on ovals, maybe that's how the split ends.
I would just find it ironic if Newman in the end was the tipping point that ended the split.
Sean Malone
10-03-07, 12:53 PM
Perhaps more imporatantly, if NHL leaves it will remove the last big piece of the CART legacy (with apologies to Walker and GF) from CC and place it with the rest in the IRL.
IRL becomes CART and CC becomes, well, something else. Something to be confused with A1GP more than something confused with the IRL. With few races in the US and none on ovals, maybe that's how the split ends.
I would just find it ironic if Newman in the end was the tipping point that ended the split.
Ironic indeed. If the rule of thumb is that there is a bit of truth in all rumors, maybe Haas goes to the 500 he's been missing and Newman/lanigan continue on in Champ Car.
Haas has Panoz parts, Lanigan has 2 races. WTF would they do with that in da earl?
I always wanted to go to Portland...:(
cameraman
10-03-07, 01:32 PM
There ya go using common sense again:rolleyes:
Sean Malone
10-03-07, 01:38 PM
Haas has Panoz parts, Lanigan has 2 races. WTF would they do with that in da earl?
I always wanted to go to Portland...:(
Just trying to extract any bit of the "possibilites" that sparked the rumor. If there is one thing I've learned in 25 years of following openwheel motorsports, there is only one guy who is "loyal" to a series.
extramundane
10-03-07, 02:02 PM
Ironic indeed. If the rule of thumb is that there is a bit of truth in all rumors, maybe Haas goes to the 500 he's been missing and Newman/lanigan continue on in Champ Car.
I was rather under the impression that some sort of Haas/Lanigan IRL entry (be it Fi Hunnert-only or otherwise) was pretty much a go regardless of CC plans.
Haas has Panoz parts, Lanigan has 2 races. WTF would they do with that in da earl?
Haas likes the Yen, and I'm sure Giancarlo Dallara would gladly let him handle his US affairs if that was the sticking point. And between The Leeg's newfound infatuation with street races and CC's need to hang onto Cleveland & Houston, Mr. Lanigan's 2 races could see their value increase remarkably.
Likely? WTF knows. Plausible? Absolutely.
Racing Truth
10-03-07, 02:23 PM
NHL: A wisp of smoke from an unreliable source here. But, damn, that would suck.
Portland: I hear the hail mary pass is in the air. 50/50 at best.
Who really knows now. Expect more of this: :(
The TFers are lousy sources.... but this guy (EagleEye) is a straight-shooter, by and large. (http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=358292&postcount=46)
EDIT: Don't,,,,worry,all is well! Marxie says NHL "committed" to CCWS in 2008! All is,,,,,welll,,,:tony:
Racing Truth
10-03-07, 02:25 PM
Haas has Panoz parts, Lanigan has 2 races. WTF would they do with that in da earl?
I always wanted to go to Portland...:(
Yen, plus Indycentric sponsors, plus, rumors say, new EARL parts. You do the math.
datachicane
10-03-07, 02:56 PM
FWIW, per Marksie a NHL spokesman sez that it's false, and reiterated the usual "Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing is committed to the Champ Car World Series."
You're right. If NHLR and Lanigan's 2 events do cross over, you've essentially got the IRL as CART 98-02 minus the LBC and engine wars. Which leaves the CCWS as, uh... a North American version of the World Series by Nissan 2001-03? Milka was in that. DFL there too.
p.s. CART 98-02 plus Danica, so you know, even better.:tony:
Racing Truth
10-03-07, 08:06 PM
FWIW, per Marksie a NHL spokesman sez that it's false, and reiterated the usual "Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing is committed to the Champ Car World Series."
You know, I read that again. What does it NOT say? No mention of "...for 2008." That's brilliant. Like the old "vote of confidence" before someone gets fired.
Just sayin'.
Spicoli
10-03-07, 09:03 PM
You know, I read that again. What does it NOT say? No mention of "...for 2008." That's brilliant. Like the old "vote of confidence" before someone gets fired.
Just sayin'.
I would bet they are gone. Too much smoke.
jonovision_man
10-03-07, 09:10 PM
But there were always other teams, other sponsors, etc. Now? Not so much. If, as is highly possible, we lose NHL, and CDW at the same time, that's 100% of CC's sponsorship consistency (not to mention likely 3 cars) gone in one fell swoop. The checkbook can come out all it wants, but it's not going to come close to filling the hole.
The checkbook can fill any hole, throw money around and fill up a grid. Add a car here, another there, I don't think there's a huge problem with that.
The question is - how on earth can anyone look at ChampCar and think "yes, this is where I would like to invest my money!"
jono
extramundane
10-03-07, 10:01 PM
The checkbook can fill any hole, throw money around and fill up a grid. Add a car here, another there, I don't think there's a huge problem with that.
The checkbook can put cars on the grid, but if it's in the form of a 3rd PKV and 2nd Sucketsports car, is that really filling the hole left by an NHL departure? Is replacing McDonalds, MediZone, and/or CDW with "Jimmy" and "Beijing '08 (this time we MEAN it!)" really not a problem?
Sean Malone
10-03-07, 10:06 PM
If none of the athletes of any given sport don't get paid..aren't they considered amateur? Why yes they are.
This thing's gettin' worse by the hour.
Insomniac
10-03-07, 11:15 PM
The question is - how on earth can anyone look at ChampCar and think "yes, this is where I would like to invest my money!
By the look of the sidepods, a few people.
greenie
10-03-07, 11:23 PM
Paul Newman is a class act all the way, and an ubber TG hater. :thumbup:
If that's it for him, I for one appreciate his efforts in trying to tough it out. Dood is way over and above associating w/the snake oil brigade that is ruining ... I mean running ... Champ Car.
Spicoli
10-04-07, 12:50 AM
Paul Newman is a class act all the way, and an ubber TG hater. :thumbup:
If that's it for him, I for one appreciate his efforts in trying to tough it out. Dood is way over and above associating w/the snake oil brigade that is ruining ... I mean running ... Champ Car.
http://i20.tinypic.com/zje5qp.jpg
greenie
10-04-07, 02:54 AM
^^^
Continuing on, :D,
When PLN leaves, I'm going to be real bummed out. That dude is on the right side of everything the whole way thru.
His "fiercely" comment in support of CC was spot on. His hiring of great drivers and showing up at races even as he's really getting up there (but still looking good) is money. That team is so historical, and his loyalty is unrewarded to a great degree by the Mikey's of the world, etc.
I also distinctly recall one ,,,dumbass ,,,, illiterate ,,, craftsman,,, that claimed w/o any shred of proof that PLN's team was cheating w/traction control. Although that is minor in the big scheme, it still is a demonstration that maybe the bandwagon beatniks have themselves in mind and not the good of ,,, Champ Car ,,,. How's that working out for ya'll? I think it sucks.
Yep, I'm bitter. The "series" (whenever they decide to run - or not) is sunk. I half hope that PLN gets out of the mess now and lets these losers stew.
jonovision_man
10-04-07, 03:41 PM
The checkbook can put cars on the grid, but if it's in the form of a 3rd PKV and 2nd Sucketsports car, is that really filling the hole left by an NHL departure? Is replacing McDonalds, MediZone, and/or CDW with "Jimmy" and "Beijing '08 (this time we MEAN it!)" really not a problem?
Oh come on now, you know me better than that... I wasn't suggesting it's not a problem for the series! It's obviously a huge problem, I'm just saying it might end up not being the final straw.
jono
Racing Truth
10-04-07, 05:30 PM
The checkbook can fill any hole, throw money around and fill up a grid. Add a car here, another there, I don't think there's a huge problem with that.
The question is - how on earth can anyone look at ChampCar and think "yes, this is where I would like to invest my money!"
jono
I mean, sure, they COULD keep this going indefinitely, but if you lose NHL, Team Aussie (maybe?), and Portland, why bother? Seriously, what's the friggin' point?
jonovision_man
10-04-07, 07:11 PM
I agree.
If that actually happens, I hope they fold the series and save as many events as possible in the IRL... they can even pretend it's a merger rather than a surrender, I don't care, I just want this crap to end.
jono
extramundane
10-04-07, 07:21 PM
I mean, sure, they COULD keep this going indefinitely, but if you lose NHL, Team Aussie (maybe?), and Portland, why bother? Seriously, what's the friggin' point?
That's pretty much where I was going with all that. Sure, they can keep it going, but WTF would care?
Boatdesigner
10-04-07, 07:21 PM
If they fold, I have no interest in watching the IRL. I'll find something better to do with my time. The only racing I watch now is F1 and CCWS, since they stopped showing the WRC. TG has left a bad taste in my mouth and I just can't bring myself to support him.:yuck:
cameraman
10-04-07, 07:30 PM
The only racing I watch now is F1 and CCWS, since they stopped showing the WRC.
Why none of the 300-odd channels can see fit to broadcast the WRC coverage in the US just beggars the imagination.
jonovision_man
10-04-07, 07:43 PM
The only racing I watch now is F1 and CCWS, since they stopped showing the WRC. TG has left a bad taste in my mouth and I just can't bring myself to support him.:yuck:
I watch a bunch of stuff.
I refuse to miss is F1.
I try not to miss (and occasionally tape) CCWS and the IRL.
ALMS, Grand Am, I'll watch if its on... watched some NASCAR (even Busch!) this year to see how Montoya's going, but I've lost interest, will only watch the road races. Star Mazda sometimes to see how that Devon kid from Star Racer is doing. :)
jono
Insomniac
10-05-07, 12:38 AM
I mean, sure, they COULD keep this going indefinitely, but if you lose NHL, Team Aussie (maybe?), and Portland, why bother? Seriously, what's the friggin' point?
Couldn't the same be said about so many other things in the past? Year after year they drop stuff, drop tradition, make changes, etc. We're going to watch until the bitter end. We're all masochists when it comes to CC.
greenie
10-05-07, 12:50 AM
Couldn't the same be said about so many other things in the past? Year after year they drop stuff, drop tradition, make changes, etc. We're going to watch until the bitter end. We're all masochists when it comes to CC.
That's the sad truth. :laugh:
The racing this year has been pretty good, all things considered. If you throw one pasty white amigo into the figurative incinerator, throw in w/that loser the lemming brigade of ,,, wanna be apologists ,,, (not because they're important, just for fun), and start fresh maybe there's something tolerable to be salvaged? The proposed Euro tour is something that I'd get behind if it sparks some life into this dead series. I'm not holding my breath, but in true masochist fashion I might even do that at last resort. :tony:
coolhand
10-05-07, 01:09 AM
F1 coverage is still hard to get in some places in the US. Speed is not to common on the west coast.
I have not watched a whole race on TV this year of anything
greenie
10-05-07, 01:28 AM
F1 coverage is still hard to get in some places in the US. Speed is not to common on the west coast.
Huh?
cameraman
10-05-07, 02:15 AM
Speed is not to common on the west coast.
Two words:
Satellite Dish
Slight pontification here:
Perhaps all this "its over" talk the last couple months is less mourning the passing of the CCWS (it will likely continue in some form whether we care or -more likely- don't care) and more the true acceptance that the CCWS really has nothing to do with CART/IndyCar PPG World Series and is not the continuance of that legacy and never will be. Maybe its the final realization that CART is fully consigned to motor sports history, joining the original Can-Am, Formula 5000, Trans Am and Camel era IMSA as great series with a short life span.
Sean Malone
10-05-07, 10:50 AM
Slight pontification here:
Perhaps all this "its over" talk the last couple months is less mourning the passing of the CCWS (it will likely continue in some form whether we care or -more likely- don't care) and more the true acceptance that the CCWS really has nothing to do with CART/IndyCar PPG World Series and is not the continuance of that legacy and never will be. Maybe its the final realization that CART is fully consigned to motor sports history, joining the original Can-Am, Formula 5000, Trans Am and Camel era IMSA as great series with a short life span.
True, the rub being that 90% of what CART was is under Tony George now. Blech!
We need a group hug at Road America next year.
But rocket can't play.
:scared:
Methanolandbrats
10-05-07, 11:59 AM
Slight pontification here:
Perhaps all this "its over" talk the last couple months is less mourning the passing of the CCWS (it will likely continue in some form whether we care or -more likely- don't care) and more the true acceptance that the CCWS really has nothing to do with CART/IndyCar PPG World Series and is not the continuance of that legacy and never will be. Maybe its the final realization that CART is fully consigned to motor sports history, joining the original Can-Am, Formula 5000, Trans Am and Camel era IMSA as great series with a short life span.
Very true, I lived through all those and I know CART is done. Every 20 years of so something new takes shape, but I don't see any sign of a bottom yet and if FTG takes over the controls we're a long way from the bottom.
extramundane
10-05-07, 12:14 PM
Slight pontification here:
Perhaps all this "its over" talk the last couple months is less mourning the passing of the CCWS (it will likely continue in some form whether we care or -more likely- don't care) and more the true acceptance that the CCWS really has nothing to do with CART/IndyCar PPG World Series and is not the continuance of that legacy and never will be. Maybe its the final realization that CART is fully consigned to motor sports history, joining the original Can-Am, Formula 5000, Trans Am and Camel era IMSA as great series with a short life span.
Needs more punctuation. But other than that :thumbup:
stroker
10-05-07, 04:08 PM
True, the rub being that 90% of what CART was is under Tony George now. Blech!
That's why it failed, dude.... That's why the .1RL is failing, too.
oddlycalm
10-05-07, 05:39 PM
First, you know any rumor that has Paul Newman going to the EARL is 100% crap. For those that still didn't here's this.
NHL not going anywhere (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/63049)
Regarding Portland, the event has been on the fence for years now but this year attendance was ok and the event sponsorship actually happened. I seriously doubt there is anything new on this and there hasn't been word one locally.
My take is that CCWS is having considerable difficulty stabilizing it's schedule around city street events due to the fact that cities tend to have large construction projects and other conflicts that predictably interfere. Cancelling a natural road course race that is actually within the city limits and has a light rail mass transit line to the front gate would be uber stupid in the long run (assuming these guys have a long run). Rescheduling it so it doesn't compete with event saturation during Rose Festival would be a smart move, and these guys are seriously in need of some smart moves.
oc
He said: "Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing have not had any contact with Dallara regarding purchases of cars. We can only conclude that these rumors are being started by someone with malicious intent."
Earlier this week, the team also felt compelled to put out a one-line press release stating "Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing is committed to the Champ Car World Series."
A senior source within Champ Car added that the team's move would never happen while [co-founder] Paul Newman remained on the team. Newman has long been regarded as Champ Car's most loyal supporter.
:laugh: So what was the source of this BS in the first place?
extramundane
10-05-07, 11:08 PM
:laugh: So what was the source of this BS in the first place?
Dunno the original source, but the fact that A) more than 4 people thought it possible and B) the fact that, if true, it would likely be curtains for CC highlights what piss-poor shape the series is in.
Sean Malone
10-05-07, 11:39 PM
Dunno the original source, but the fact that A) more than 4 people thought it possible and B) the fact that, if true, it would likely be curtains for CC highlights what piss-poor shape the series is in.
A-freakin-men.
The source rhymes with that Italian pastry which I can't remember right now.
Spicoli
10-06-07, 12:49 AM
what a bunch of apologistic BS...
miatanut
10-06-07, 01:12 AM
Slight pontification here:
Perhaps all this "its over" talk the last couple months is less mourning the passing of the CCWS (it will likely continue in some form whether we care or -more likely- don't care) and more the true acceptance that the CCWS really has nothing to do with CART/IndyCar PPG World Series and is not the continuance of that legacy and never will be. Maybe its the final realization that CART is fully consigned to motor sports history, joining the original Can-Am, Formula 5000, Trans Am and Camel era IMSA as great series with a short life span.
:thumbup:
Dunno the original source, but the fact that A) more than 4 people thought it possible and B) the fact that, if true, it would likely be curtains for CC highlights what piss-poor shape the series is in.
I agree the series is in lousy shape. But this was all just another false internet rumor that got a bunch of folks pantys in a bunch. Again.:laugh:
what a bunch of apologistic BS...
That's not even a word.
extramundane
10-06-07, 12:07 PM
I agree the series is in lousy shape. But this was all just another false internet rumor that got a bunch of folks pantys in a bunch. Again.:laugh:
It got panties bunched because, for the first time in a long time, a NH(L) departured seemed plausible. Even a couple years ago it would have been laughed off at first suggestion.
Spicoli
10-06-07, 02:26 PM
That's not even a word.
words have to get developed somehow.
stroker
10-06-07, 02:28 PM
Apologistic? Wasn't that used by Alex DeLarge in "A Clockwork Orange"?
"Hello, hello, hello... Aren't we appy-pollo-gistic this fine morning?"
:p
Spicoli
10-06-07, 02:30 PM
Apologistic? Wasn't that used by Alex DeLarge in "A Clockwork Orange"?
"Hello, hello, hello... Aren't we appy-pollo-gistic this fine morning?"
:p
see. :D
oddlycalm
10-06-07, 03:00 PM
words have to get developed somehow. Considering the bruising the language has taken at the hands of professional sports broadcasters and our Fearless Leader de jour any damage you do is likely to be inconsequential...:D
oc
Apologistic? Wasn't that used by Alex DeLarge in "A Clockwork Orange"?
"Hello, hello, hello... Aren't we appy-pollo-gistic this fine morning?"
:p
From the source text:
...... start of the evening and I make no appy polly loggies to thee or thine for that. ...
Better be correct, since Alex du Large reads here and is still the fastest and best Durago driver on the planet. ;)
Insomniac
10-06-07, 04:31 PM
It got panties bunched because, for the first time in a long time, a NH(L) departured seemed plausible. Even a couple years ago it would have been laughed off at first suggestion.
Who thought this was plausible? I know I didn't believe it. Should've done a poll. Didn't even make sense.
matthole
10-06-07, 07:36 PM
:laugh: So what was the source of this BS in the first place?
This board full of earl trolls: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121586
A lot of 'concerned Champ Car fans' there. :shakehead
I hope a scheissewaagen sails over the fence and lands on that 'forum'. :tony:
jonovision_man
10-06-07, 07:54 PM
Who thought this was plausible?
:raises hand:
I figure Newman's getting too old for this, and he's really the guy keeping the team firmly in ChampCar... I could totally see them ditching this sinking ship.
jono
Mike Lawler
10-06-07, 07:58 PM
Portland: I hear the hail mary pass is in the air. 50/50 at best.
Just my thoughts....
The spectator count for Portland has been low compared to other events for the past several years. Getting down to basics, its the overall head count for each event Champ Car reviews.
Pointing fingers at the promotors, blaming TV coverage or the home office has not solved the low turnout .
Lets face it, if Portland is canceled, only a miniority from that area will care.
As we say in Washington, logic stops once you cross south over the Vancouver bridge.
Sean O'Gorman
10-06-07, 08:19 PM
That's not even a word.
625 results on Google say otherwise.
Of course, since Spicoli invented it, its probably something really obscene and should be put in this forum's filter.
stroker
10-06-07, 08:49 PM
From the source text:
Better be correct, since Alex du Large reads here and is still the fastest and best Durago driver on the planet. ;)
no disrespect intended. Especially for a Durango driver.
:D
Spicoli
10-06-07, 09:04 PM
They have two new sponsors for their IRL effort, and are loosing one (Medizone) from CCWS. Mr. Newman, has decided against putting his own money into keeping the team in CCWS, and has relented to Mr. Haas's wish to return to Indy to compete against Team Penske, AGR and Ganassi in the IRL. Despite what their personal preferences are, it comes down to money.
The three Amigos have ***** big time, by not following through on several promises, and have generally ticked off several owners, including Mr. Haas.
They have purchased four/five Dallara's. They have signed JW in SB's seat. They are NOT signing Marco, as he is staying at AGR. They are looking to sell their DP01’s.
Will there be a CCWS series nest year? Yes.
While the owners have not put money up to promote the series, they are trying to sign additional European races, in hopes of generating enough funding to ensure there are at least 18 cars next year. They are also trying to get more money for promotion and possibly HD, but again, money is not something they have a lot of. But, they will have to endure one more canceled race (Las Vegas, unless they buy the promoters out) and another upcoming lawsuit.
As I've indicated for almost a year, three cars are gone (NHL and RuSport) and there were going to be two new ones, who have vanished. So, you might see Vision II/Three Amigo Racing/Eldon Rassmusson's Wrent a Racer/whatever.
He put a lot out there in this post, so let's see what happens with it.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121586&page=3
Even Jan Shafer seems to think its true. but he thinks TG is a smart one, so take that with a a shot of bourbon.
I have heard similar to EE in regard to N/H/L, only I hadn't heard as much. In answer to one question, yes, I've heard that Graham Rahal moves over for at least SOME races.
:confused:
Methanolandbrats
10-06-07, 09:10 PM
Eagle Eye? WTF.............is he Nostradamus' great, great, great,great,great, great, great, great grandson :confused:
Sean Malone
10-06-07, 11:18 PM
Who thought this was plausible? I know I didn't believe it. Should've done a poll. Didn't even make sense.
Of course it was plausible. Champ Car is a mess, Haas has always had Indyitis, they've done Indy 1 offs how many times in the past ten years, Paul himself went to one, when, last year? Plausible? of course it's plausible.
Sean Malone
10-06-07, 11:20 PM
625 results on Google say otherwise.
Of course, since Spicoli invented it, its probably something really obscene and should be put in this forum's filter.
Shows you how many idiots are on the internet. :)
greenie
10-07-07, 01:26 AM
This board full of earl trolls: http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121586
A lot of 'concerned Champ Car fans' there. :shakehead
I hope a scheissewaagen sails over the fence and lands on that 'forum'. :tony:
Bloody hell - I'm going blind after seeing that. :tony:
I actually agree with Brent Jackson on page two - jettison the bloated white spittle whale PG, along w/worthless MF "president" SJ, and get down to business.
And as an aside, I have to tip my cap to the earlers for paying off Jan ******* in the peanuts he makes for his hrs of typing anti CC nonsense. Nobody (other than spurned lightweight Wilke) would do that for free under the circumstances. Smart move.
He put a lot out there in this post, so let's see what happens with it.
http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121586&page=3
Even Jan Shafer seems to think its true. but he thinks TG is a smart one, so take that with a a shot of bourbon.
:confused:
Why do you believe any of the stuff these people post. :rofl:
extramundane
10-07-07, 01:11 PM
Who thought this was plausible? I know I didn't believe it. Should've done a poll. Didn't even make sense.
CC is a directionless ship right now, the schedule is a mess, attendance sucks, sponsorship levels suck, and the car count sucks. Fat Carl & Mike Lanigan already own a team with Mari Hulman. Lanigan has previous IRL experience as a sponsor. Haas has an Indy jones and likes the Yen more than Smackforum likes booze & porn. It all makes perfect sense to me. Doesn't mean I like it or want it to happen, but it would be entirely understandable.
extramundane
10-07-07, 01:13 PM
Why do you believe any of the stuff these people post. :rofl:
I haven't read MSF in years (never the same since the Yellow Vehicle Enthusiast got canned :shakehead :rofl: ), but that Eagle Eye dude used to have a good track record, far better than other,,,internet,,,insiders.
Spicoli
10-07-07, 01:24 PM
Why do you believe any of the stuff these people post. :rofl:
Well, I know Eagle Eye (and not thru the boards) and he would have a pretty good idea if it was true.
And since jan works directly for IMS/EARL/tonyTard - I suppose he would know as well.
I am now hearing that the supposed SAMAX Dallaras were not in fact sold to NHL. And if you know the connection between the guys running SAMAX, and that they are mostly former N/H guys, then yeah, it would all make sense.
And like others have said: CCWS is a lame ass sorry attempt (management wise) at carrying on the great CART tradition, you would THINK that Carl would have seen the true mediocrity at CCWS and be looking at options. One of those options would, of course, be EARL (especially as it migrates to CART part II). And if NHL left CCWS, I think we would all mostly feel that was about it for KK & Co., but who knows what else they would do to continue on this merry happy joyous FUBAR of a series.
It all makes sense if it happens, and wouldn't really suprise anyone EITHER way.
I can;t imagine ANY potential sponsor that had their eye on the series - after seeing the complete mess they presented this year - would take them very seriously.
oh well. The racing was pretty good this year, and congrats to Frog for a 4th Championship.:\
oddlycalm
10-07-07, 03:56 PM
The spectator count for Portland has been low compared to other events for the past several years. Getting down to basics, its the overall head count for each event Champ Car reviews.
Pointing fingers at the promotors, blaming TV coverage or the home office has not solved the low turnout .
Lets face it, if Portland is canceled, only a miniority from that area will care.
As we say in Washington, logic stops once you cross south over the Vancouver bridge. The picture is a bit bigger for CCWS than snarky local prejudice and inch deep analysis. If Portland is cancelled CCWS will have lost a permanent road course in an urban market, something it can ill afford to do. And you are wrong BTW; event sponsorship is just a big an issue as attendance. There were years Portland had good attendance than the race lost money due to lack of full sponsorship. This year the race was back to full sponsorship.
While I expect that a small gain could be had by moving the race later in the season to avoid Rose Festival event saturation, the real reason for the decline in interest is the same as everywhere else; no name drivers in a spec series in a motorsports world dominated by NASCAR. Add to that a decade of negative press over the politics of the split and a well placed IMS paid shill (Bill Hildick) that never misses a chance to poison the well with a negative interview.
At the end of the day having an actual track to race on may enter into the decision more than you think. Look around at street races are were cancelled due to more important civic priorities. Vancouver gone, San Jose gone, and all the money and time invested to promote them gone with them. So now they go back to Laguna Seca where the crowds were so small they made Portland look successful? What if they has spent all that money and energy promoting Laguna Seca in the first place...???
oc
What if they has spent all that money and energy promoting Laguna Seca in the first place...???
oc
Short term decision making. It's the same old "we look better this quarter" thinking that destroyed American industries while "less rational" foreign owners invested for the long run.
Greed is good, right, Gordon?
At the end of the day having an actual track to race on may enter into the decision more than you think. Look around at street races are were cancelled due to more important civic priorities. Vancouver gone, San Jose gone, Houston v.1 gone, Denver gone...
Jag_Warrior
10-07-07, 08:47 PM
the real reason for the decline in interest is the same as everywhere else; no name drivers in a spec series in a motorsports world dominated by NASCAR.
oc
Thank you! :thumbup:
Someone on another board made a similar comment, and spoke of Champ Car's main draws being Lady Last and Sir CrashaLot. Another nice (& amusing!) turn of words, and pretty much on target, IMO. I don't think there's enough understanding within CCWS about what fans are actually looking for. I don't think there's enough understanding about what it would take to make a casual fan a devoted fan. I just don't think that Steve & The Boys get it.
TravelGal
10-08-07, 01:58 AM
:raises hand: [about who thought it was plausible]
I figure Newman's getting too old for this, and he's really the guy keeping the team firmly in ChampCar... I could totally see them ditching this sinking ship.
jono
I didn't buy it. Newman may get out voted or out foxed or out spent, but he'll never be too old for his principles. Apart from his blind worship of Seb, PLN can do no wrong in my book. He "has a problem with the guy" who runs the EARL and that will never change.
What is obvious to me is, not that the 3 amigos don't get it, it's that they are paralyzed by having too many cooks so we're all in the stew. Every person who spoke to me over the last 12 months, which is many fewer than most of you know, said the same thing: no one at HQ can agree on anything. My conclusion is that any time anyone actually does ANYTHING, they get fired. viz the entire marketing staff...several times over.
It ain't pretty, that's for sure.
jonovision_man
10-08-07, 07:56 AM
^^^ I didn't think Newman would be going against his principles, I figured as part of this rumour he'd be just going period. He ain't getting any younger (except in his head! ;)).
Frankly any team leaving or closing up is entirely plausible with the situation at CCWS.
jono
Insomniac
10-08-07, 08:28 AM
Of course it was plausible. Champ Car is a mess, Haas has always had Indyitis, they've done Indy 1 offs how many times in the past ten years, Paul himself went to one, when, last year? Plausible? of course it's plausible.
With all the events Lanigan is associated with? With the Panoz parts supply deal? With actual sponsors? With Graham Rahal? With Paul Newman as one of the owners? Surely they were offered the Yen before and declines it (I don't know if they were still offering it now).
Seemed like a ridiculous rumor to me.
Insomniac
10-08-07, 08:31 AM
CC is a directionless ship right now, the schedule is a mess, attendance sucks, sponsorship levels suck, and the car count sucks. Fat Carl & Mike Lanigan already own a team with Mari Hulman. Lanigan has previous IRL experience as a sponsor. Haas has an Indy jones and likes the Yen more than Smackforum likes booze & porn. It all makes perfect sense to me. Doesn't mean I like it or want it to happen, but it would be entirely understandable.
Most of that stuff is the same old the past couple years. Do you think there is more Yen now than there was in 2003? Andretti got to buy and expand to a 4-car team.
Sean Malone
10-08-07, 09:32 AM
With all the events Lanigan is associated with? With the Panoz parts supply deal? With actual sponsors? With Graham Rahal? With Paul Newman as one of the owners? Surely they were offered the Yen before and declines it (I don't know if they were still offering it now).
Seemed like a ridiculous rumor to me.
Ridiculous, and plausible are two different things.
Spicoli
10-08-07, 09:33 AM
With all the events Lanigan is associated with? With the Panoz parts supply deal? With actual sponsors? With Graham Rahal? With Paul Newman as one of the owners? Surely they were offered the Yen before and declines it (I don't know if they were still offering it now).
Seemed like a ridiculous rumor to me.
I don't think its as much as "going to the EARL" as it is and indictment of the cluster**** that is CCWS management. Like I said before, we are all amazed that this present group has messed up as bad as it has, yet NHL stays with em. And I would bet they would look at ALMS just as strongly as EARL. In other words, "I'm leaving you honey, I can't take it anymore!"
"Is there another woman?"
"No, but I'll find one treats me better than YOU!"
[editor's note: No, my wife never said that to me. ;)
extramundane
10-08-07, 09:34 AM
With all the events Lanigan is associated with? With the Panoz parts supply deal? With actual sponsors? With Graham Rahal? With Paul Newman as one of the owners? Surely they were offered the Yen before and declines it (I don't know if they were still offering it now).
I said all this before, I think, but:
If he wanted to jump ship, Lanigan would be in prime position. KK/GF would have to pony up big bucks to buy his events themselves, making quite a mint for Lanigan. If they didn't pay up, TG would gladly add them to his calendar ('cuz IRL reVision 8.4 sez streets is good). Haas has been parts **** for Lola and Swift in the past; I've no doubt he could strike up a similar deal with Dallara too. Sponsorwise, they've got McDonalds, but little else. MediZone can't be paying much, and they're rumored to be done as a company anyway.
Make no mistake: I'm glad that they're staying. But the conditions were (are) more ripe for their departure than any time since 2002.
(Isn't this the part where I get counted down?)
Spicoli
10-08-07, 10:15 AM
I said all this before, I think, but:
If he wanted to jump ship, Lanigan would be in prime position. KK/GF would have to pony up big bucks to buy his events themselves, making quite a mint for Lanigan. If they didn't pay up, TG would gladly add them to his calendar ('cuz IRL reVision 8.4 sez streets is good). Haas has been parts **** for Lola and Swift in the past; I've no doubt he could strike up a similar deal with Dallara too. Sponsorwise, they've got McDonalds, but little else. MediZone can't be paying much, and they're rumored to be done as a company anyway.
Make no mistake: I'm glad that they're staying. But the conditions were (are) more ripe for their departure than any time since 2002.
(Isn't this the part where I get counted down?)
bingo.
They have toomuch at stake with CCWS, which means Homoco League/TonyTard will value them to the nth degree.
Dr. Corkski
10-08-07, 11:38 AM
Thank you! :thumbup:
Someone on another board made a similar comment, and spoke of Champ Car's main draws being Lady Last and Sir CrashaLot. Another nice (& amusing!) turn of words, and pretty much on target, IMO. I don't think there's enough understanding within CCWS about what fans are actually looking for. I don't think there's enough understanding about what it would take to make a casual fan a devoted fan. I just don't think that Steve & The Boys get it.To be fair, it's hard for management to understand the fans when the official spokesman of all champ car fans is keyboard-challenged.
Insomniac
10-08-07, 12:28 PM
Ridiculous, and plausible are two different things.
Nothing even added up to seem plausible to me. Sure, anything's possible, but from my view it made no sense given all their ties to ChampCar.
Insomniac
10-08-07, 12:32 PM
I don't think its as much as "going to the EARL" as it is and indictment of the cluster**** that is CCWS management. Like I said before, we are all amazed that this present group has messed up as bad as it has, yet NHL stays with em. And I would bet they would look at ALMS just as strongly as EARL. In other words, "I'm leaving you honey, I can't take it anymore!"
"Is there another woman?"
"No, but I'll find one treats me better than YOU!"
[editor's note: No, my wife never said that to me. ;)
Despite the mess that is CC, to me, it just seems like N/H/L is the last team to leave before FCR and PKV. (I could see Rocketsports gone before N/H/L). I guess I believe there will be a 2008 season. If there wasn't, then I could see N/H/L in the IRL.
Insomniac
10-08-07, 12:39 PM
I said all this before, I think, but:
If he wanted to jump ship, Lanigan would be in prime position. KK/GF would have to pony up big bucks to buy his events themselves, making quite a mint for Lanigan. If they didn't pay up, TG would gladly add them to his calendar ('cuz IRL reVision 8.4 sez streets is good). Haas has been parts **** for Lola and Swift in the past; I've no doubt he could strike up a similar deal with Dallara too. Sponsorwise, they've got McDonalds, but little else. MediZone can't be paying much, and they're rumored to be done as a company anyway.
Make no mistake: I'm glad that they're staying. But the conditions were (are) more ripe for their departure than any time since 2002.
(Isn't this the part where I get counted down?)
I don't agree with your Lanigan scenario. Presumably, they have signed contracts that would not allow him to just give the races to the IRL. It is also in his financial interest for those events to be successful. Trying to destroy what is left of CC won't really help his events. Sure, maybe Haas could get the Dallara parts supply deal (I'm surprised one of the super teams doesn't have it already). And what happens with Graham Rahal?
Sean Malone
10-08-07, 12:54 PM
Despite the mess that is CC, to me, it just seems like N/H/L is the last team to leave before FCR and PKV. (I could see Rocketsports gone before N/H/L). I guess I believe there will be a 2008 season. If there wasn't, then I could see N/H/L in the IRL.
You could see the owners team going to the IRL before N/H/L? OK, now you're just being silly. ;)
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