View Full Version : OK, SJ and KK,
Racing Truth
09-26-07, 08:08 PM
We'll consider this a test. (http://www.champcarfanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1028565#post1028565)
IFF you come out with a believable scheduled not laced with TBA in 2, even ,3, weeks, you will pass and give us some confidence. If we're still waiting in Nov., you failed. See boys, y'all have talked big before (Spring Training/Press Day) and not exactly met expectations. Forgive me wanting to follow the "Trust, but verify" dictate.
jonovision_man
09-26-07, 08:55 PM
"We will have our calendar in two weeks, but you can see the smile in my face and in the people around me. When you see our calendar, you will see a world class one, but you have to wait two weeks"
I can't wait to hear what races they'll be announcing for cancellation in 2008!
jono
I can't wait to hear what races they'll be announcing for cancellation in 2008!
jono
http://www.gcplayers.com/2007_fiddler.jpg
I think a "condensed" 15 race schedule with no more than a MONTH between races would actually be an improvment. Lets keep the month of December open however!:D
robot9000
09-27-07, 11:04 AM
When the schedule is released in mid December, you will hear that Champcar HAD a schedule in mid Oct. It was solid, but they needed to get FIA and a whole host of others to sign off first.
That'll be their story or something similar. Ultimatly, whatever the delay, it won't be their fault :rolleyes:
Spicoli
09-27-07, 12:05 PM
Cool! SJ is doing a great job under a tremenous amount of pressure.
:gomer:
Well, really...wasn't the F-1 USGP in way closer proximity to about 6 CC races than the CC China race would have been to the F-1 round? Big threat. Good thing the FIA was there to protect BE from the CC danger!:shakehead
Miller said he heard 6 US, 5 Euro, 3 Canada, plus Aussie and Mexi.
Insomniac
09-27-07, 02:07 PM
Well, really...wasn't the F-1 USGP in way closer proximity to about 6 CC races than the CC China race would have been to the F-1 round? Big threat. Good thing the FIA was there to protect BE from the CC danger!:shakehead
Some feel the decision to deny the date wasn't to protect F1, but a message to ChampCar since they announced the date change before getting FIA approval.
Al Czervik
09-27-07, 02:08 PM
Miller said he heard 6 US, 5 Euro, 3 Canada, plus Aussie and Mexi.
Is that races or drivers?
Is that races or drivers?
Sorry, not clear is it. Races. Responded to questions about the 08 schedule on chat at SpeedTV.com
have to wait and see but I'm hearing five races in Europe and six in the USA, 3 in Canada, Aussie, Mex City.
Racing Truth
09-27-07, 03:02 PM
Well, really...wasn't the F-1 USGP in way closer proximity to about 6 CC races than the CC China race would have been to the F-1 round? Big threat. Good thing the FIA was there to protect BE from the CC danger!:shakehead
Fine, but they HAD to know the FIA would have a problem with it, right?
Well, really...wasn't the F-1 USGP in way closer proximity to about 6 CC races than the CC China race would have been to the F-1 round? Big threat. Good thing the FIA was there to protect BE from the CC danger!:shakehead
It was the proximity of the date, not the location.
So? How many CC races "close" in time to the US GP? More than one. No, it was a message alright and it had nothing to do with the reasons given. (and distance, 800 mi., WAS given as a reason. Both in China so it MUST have been close.)
Al Czervik
09-27-07, 07:47 PM
Sorry, not clear is it. Races. Responded to questions about the 08 schedule on chat at SpeedTV.com
My bad, forgot the :D
This must be the most polite motorsports forum on the innernets (probably should add a sic there as well)
opinionated ow
09-27-07, 08:08 PM
Miller said he heard 6 US, 5 Euro, 3 Canada, plus Aussie and Mexi.
so much for the us national driver's championship,,,,,it doesn;t,,,,really,,never,,,was:irked:
opinionated ow
09-27-07, 08:11 PM
So? How many CC races "close" in time to the US GP? More than one. No, it was a message alright and it had nothing to do with the reasons given. (and distance, 800 mi., WAS given as a reason. Both in China so it MUST have been close.)
The USA races are listed as national races, and thus the FIA can not get their nose out of joint as ACCUS approves national events. V8 SUPERFARCE through CAMS organises their domestic races, but when they go overseas the FIA has to approves their dates. It is the same deal for all national championships/series.
so much for the us national driver's championship,,,,,it doesn;t,,,,really,,never,,,was:irked:
It is over. Champ Car is not champ car. Indy Car is champ car.
Get over it. :yuck:
Spicoli
09-27-07, 11:33 PM
It is over. Champ Car is not champ car. Indy Car is champ car.
Get over it. :yuck:
Not agreeing with you.
IndyCar is like Champcar except without the fans, or manufacturers, or cool race cars, or good racing, or, well, you get the point.
Not agreeing with you.
IndyCar is like Champcar except without the fans, or manufacturers, or cool race cars, or good racing, or, well, you get the point.
Yeah, well, sure. But it is still the continuation of the U.S. championship trail. CCWS has abandoned it.
But, then again, it all sucks, and who cares. We'll all be dead soon, anyway. [depressed] :saywhat:
miatanut
09-28-07, 12:07 AM
FTG! :)
Insomniac
09-28-07, 09:22 AM
Is that races or drivers?
6 US should've been the tip-off. 6 Americans in CC? :rofl:
FTG! :)
:thumbup:
Probably the one thing left we all agree on. :(
jonovision_man
09-28-07, 06:27 PM
:thumbup:
Probably the one thing left we all agree on. :(
Do I think he's an incompetent wanker? Yes.
But I think focusing on trying to **** him is a waste of time and energy. Merger would be prefered to ChampCar fading to oblivion.
jono
greenie
09-29-07, 02:44 AM
Do I think he's an incompetent wanker? Yes.
But I think focusing on trying to **** him is a waste of time and energy. Merger would be prefered to ChampCar fading to oblivion.
I agree on all counts. He's a buffoon but he's got the power. I'm not wasting an ounce of anger on that jackass anymore. And the NHL starts tomorrow a.m. :cool:
I also agree w/Spicoli above. I'd like to see a merger but I'll leave it if the merger (or worse) involves those piss-poor grotesque cars.
Honestly, the entire OW mess was much more amusing when CART held the upper hand. Now, it's just a drag.
Methanolandbrats
09-29-07, 07:41 AM
Do I think he's an incompetent wanker? Yes.
But I think focusing on trying to **** him is a waste of time and energy. Merger would be prefered to ChampCar fading to oblivion.
jono
If there is a merger and FTG has anything to do with it, it will fade into oblivion anyway. We have been treated to a decade of his managerial skills. That ****er is'nt smart enough to mow lawns.
stroker
09-29-07, 11:05 AM
If there is a merger and FTG has anything to do with it, it will fade into oblivion anyway. We have been treated to a decade of his managerial skills. That ****er is'nt smart enough to mow lawns.
What, put a lawn mower in his hands? I wouldn't trust him with a weed-wacker!
matthole
09-29-07, 11:18 AM
Yeah, well, sure. But it is still the continuation of the U.S. championship trail.
:rolleyes:
No, it isn't. It might be a sort of cheap, shoddy imitation of the series that used to be the continuation of it, but it has absolute zero to do with the heritage and lineage.
Racing Truth
09-29-07, 02:53 PM
:rolleyes:
No, it isn't. It might be a sort or cheap, shoddy imitation of the series that used to be the continuation of it, but it has absolute zero to do with the heritage and lineage.
Agreee. That heritage is dead. Same applies to CCWS.
jonovision_man
09-29-07, 06:46 PM
If there is a merger and FTG has anything to do with it, it will fade into oblivion anyway. We have been treated to a decade of his managerial skills. That ****er is'nt smart enough to mow lawns.
It couldn't be any worse than what we've been getting from ChampCar...
When has the IRL ever canceled a race it scheduled? I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember it.
Now to ChampCar - can anyone remember the last season where every race scheduled was actually run? I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember it... I think you need to go all the way back to CART (or possibly the first post-bankruptcy year?)
The IRL has a TV contract that pays them (by all accounts), ChampCar pays for TV and it's very doubtful that they recoup those costs. Yes, it's mostly on the strength of Indy. But it works for them.
Both series have team assistance - that's pretty clear. The IRL just announced theirs, ChampCar claims they ditched it but doesn't anyone really believe this is a self-sufficient grid?
A combined series could cut that off tomorrow. The top teams would show up, we'd have 20, 22, 24 cars on the grid.
I could go on, but I'm either preaching to the choir or preaching to people who hate the IRL... there's not many "on the fence". ;) I just hate the mediocrity on both sides that is completely solvable by getting down to a single series.
jono
Methanolandbrats
09-29-07, 07:01 PM
It couldn't be any worse than what we've been getting from ChampCar...
When has the IRL ever canceled a race it scheduled? I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember it.
Now to ChampCar - can anyone remember the last season where every race scheduled was actually run? I'm sure it's happened, but I can't remember it... I think you need to go all the way back to CART (or possibly the first post-bankruptcy year?)
The IRL has a TV contract that pays them (by all accounts), ChampCar pays for TV and it's very doubtful that they recoup those costs. Yes, it's mostly on the strength of Indy. But it works for them.
Both series have team assistance - that's pretty clear. The IRL just announced theirs, ChampCar claims they ditched it but doesn't anyone really believe this is a self-sufficient grid?
A combined series could cut that off tomorrow. The top teams would show up, we'd have 20, 22, 24 cars on the grid.
I could go on, but I'm either preaching to the choir or preaching to people who hate the IRL... there's not many "on the fence". ;) I just hate the mediocrity on both sides that is completely solvable by getting down to a single series.
jono
Champcar has always flatlined. An historical graph of the Indy 500/IRL would like the trace of someone tossing a rock off a cliff.
jonovision_man
09-29-07, 07:10 PM
Champcar has always flatlined. An historical graph of the Indy 500/IRL would like the trace of someone tossing a rock off a cliff.
That's just not true... ChampCar has been in decline just like the IRL. If ChampCar is flatlining it's because you can't get fewer people to watch, short of running a test pattern.
jono
... but it has absolute zero to do with the heritage and lineage.
Just not true, no matter how much you and I want it to be.
Ruben Barrios
09-29-07, 11:01 PM
but it has absolute zero to do with the heritage and lineage.
Spec cars, one engine manufacturer, one tire only, cero ovals, no top tier teams...
That is why we follow CCWS... :confused:
I try to remember why is it that we defend CCWS so fervently?
miatanut
09-29-07, 11:16 PM
Spec cars, one engine manufacturer, one tire only, cero ovals, no top tier teams...
That is why we follow CCWS... :confused:
I try to remember why is it that we defend CCWS so fervently?
1. It's not run by FTG!
2. The racing is in fact better.
If CCWS would put a little emphasis on promotion, get a new rudder for their rudderless ship (dump Johnson), and make a commitment to run a race at all costs, if they are going to put it on the schedule, they might have something.
Methanolandbrats
09-29-07, 11:19 PM
Spec cars, one engine manufacturer, one tire only, cero ovals, no top tier teams...
That is why we follow CCWS... :confused:
I try to remember why is it that we defend CCWS so fervently? Because it's not run by the ahole who ran open wheel racing into the ground.
Ruben Barrios
09-29-07, 11:44 PM
Because it's not run by the ahole who ran open wheel racing into the ground
That's it? That is the sole reason?
Wow that really opens my eyes... All this time I thought there was something deeper and smarter... It turns out we are all just 7 year olds on a tantrum... Didn't TG do the same thing as the teams and drivers ib the white paper meeting?
I just can't fathom following someone blindly just because I don't want to follow somoeone else...
The IRL has a TV contract that pays them (by all accounts), ChampCar pays for TV and it's very doubtful that they recoup those costs. Yes, it's mostly on the strength of Indy. But it works for them.
First, are you actually trying to give Tony George some credit for this? Second, "mostly on the strength of Indy"? Do you really believe that anyone would pay them a dime if it weren't a package deal with Indy?
Both series have team assistance - that's pretty clear. The IRL just announced theirs, ChampCar claims they ditched it but doesn't anyone really believe this is a self-sufficient grid?
If it's not at least more self-sufficient than in recent years then the influx of funded drivers has been rather pointless.
cameraman
09-30-07, 12:01 AM
I try to remember why is it that we defend CCWS so fervently?
Because the IRL is far worse.
If you can't figure that one out in about half a second well....
matthole
09-30-07, 12:12 AM
Just not true, no matter how much you and I want it to be.
Wrong.
Ruben Barrios
09-30-07, 12:35 AM
Because the IRL is far worse
Other than Mr. George, how is the IRL worse exactly?
Their TV package is, well, a TV package...
They have some media coverage...
They have more sponsors...
Their schedule is solid...
Again, without getting eye misty and emotional, how exactly is the IRL worse?
cameraman
09-30-07, 02:43 AM
I take it you are blind, deaf and ...
jonovision_man
09-30-07, 02:48 AM
Other than Mr. George, how is the IRL worse exactly?
Their TV package is, well, a TV package...
They have some media coverage...
They have more sponsors...
Their schedule is solid...
Again, without getting eye misty and emotional, how exactly is the IRL worse?
FTG!!!
;)
There's no other answer - it really isn't in worse shape. It would be difficult to be worse.
jono
Other than Mr. George, how is the IRL worse exactly?
Their TV package is, well, a TV package...
They have some media coverage...
They have more sponsors...
Their schedule is solid...
Again, without getting eye misty and emotional, how exactly is the IRL worse?
The quality of the product is something worthy of a Ron Popeil 3AM infomercial? :gomer:
If there is a merger and FTG has anything to do with it, it will fade into oblivion anyway. We have been treated to a decade of his managerial skills. That ****er is'nt smart enough to mow lawns.
I wish that FTG would take helicopter pilot lessons...
Back to the hijax, the PRODUCT is FAR superior, the cars, most events. There is STRONG hate against Tony, and it's deserved. But even I am getting bored with that.
I'll say it again, to me, the season started out on a very high note, not just bc I was in Vegas, but there was eggsitements, new cars, unknown nobodies that could actually DRIVE the sumzabithes, pressure on SB, even watching our girl fall to her level of mediocrity. The the ****ups began.
I am writing off this season, yes, I'll watch the rest, but I'm in the wait-til-next-year place. If we aren't "wow'ed", then I dunno.
I have typed similar words in past years. I know.
Did I mention that I'm Cubs fan?
First, are you actually trying to give Tony George some credit for this? Second, "mostly on the strength of Indy"? Do you really believe that anyone would pay them a dime if it weren't a package deal with Indy?
Of course not.
If it's not at least more self-sufficient than in recent years then the influx of funded drivers has been rather pointless.
It has been pointless. If your driver lineup shifts everytime one of them runs out of money how do you sell the series? If your race schedule isn't solid even halfway through the current race season how do you sell sponsorship to fund a team to avoid being on the dole to the series owner? If a test pattern on the Travel channel draws more viewers than a race you paid to have telecast on ESPN, how do you sell advertising dollars to end that?
OW racing was doomed in 1994. By the time Pook stepped up to liquidate down the assets so KK could by it on the cheap, its fate was already sealed.
Dan Gurney isn't going to write a white paper again and the only particulars left don't care enough to start over again, if they did they would've handled TG and the IRL's formation a lot differently back then.
Sadly, the only hope for OW racing in this country at this point will be the Hulman version. That one never sold when the first Anton was running it and still isn't with the second one. It will be just what that family has always wanted, a racing series subserviante to the speedway and the festival that family holds one month out of the year.
Spec cars, one engine manufacturer, one tire only, cero ovals, no top tier teams...
That is why we follow CCWS... :confused:
I try to remember why is it that we defend CCWS so fervently?
You are right, Ruben. We have different reasons, but if I go back far enough, it is because I love the Indy 500. Odd reason to love Champ Car now, eh? Of course, it makes sense in the context of "if you love Indy, you have to hate Anton, therefore you should love CC," but that last part is beginning to wear thin. No ovals, two domestic roads, the streets are garbage. Cleveland is cool, however, and Edmonton and Mt Tremblant, too.
But, I have to say, the hating Tony part of the motivation is gone for me, too. Too much time has passed. Sometimes the bad guys win, and you just have to get over it. Champ Car will either retain us as fans on the strength of what they bring to us, or, I think most of us will be gone by this time next year.
The stupid thing about the IRL is that if they adopt a nice chassis/engine combination, they can put Champ Car out of its misery within a year. Why they stick with crapwagons is a mystery.
Sadly, the only hope for OW racing in this country at this point will be the Hulman version. That one never sold when the first Anton was running it and still isn't with the second one. It will be just what that family has always wanted, a racing series subserviante to the speedway and the festival that family holds one month out of the year.
I suspect, in the end, this will prove to be accurate. :(
And I won't be watching.
Until then I am going to try to enjoy whatever is left of Champ Car. :)
Spicoli
09-30-07, 10:05 AM
TG has never proven he can do anything but write checks.
jonovision_man
09-30-07, 12:02 PM
TG has never proven he can do anything but write checks.
I'm sure that's part of it... but he's also managed to swing a TV deal that pays the IRL and set up the BY400 (and now bikes!) to make buckets of money to help him cover those checks, not to mention the money from the 500.
I'm not saying he's bright or anything like that, there would have been many more buckets of money if he hadn't split the damn thing leading to him having to subsize a series. He's just less incompetent than some give him credit for.
jono
ferrarigod
09-30-07, 01:12 PM
TG has never proven he can do anything but write checks.
neither has steve magic johnson, kk, or gf.
on the other side of the issue, Gentizolli has proven he can never do anything but AVOID writing a check, but promising to.
:yuck:
There was no bigger fan of Champ Cars than myself, problem is that was 45 years ago when they races Indianapolis, Trenton, Springfield, Sacramento, Milwaukee, then the owners decided that racing two different types of tracks was no longer needed, after they placed the engines in the trunk all they wanted to race on was pavement, then they decided that they could race their cars on the streets of a big city, doing this they were able to replace the dirt tracks that they no longer raced on, there were no new race tracks being built then so the street races were the next best thing in order to run 18/20 races each year
robot9000
10-01-07, 11:30 AM
GF and KK at least came up the rungs of corp america. FTG is just a member of the Lucky Spemr club.
Andrew Longman
10-01-07, 12:04 PM
Sadly, the only hope for OW racing in this country at this point will be the Hulman version. That one never sold when the first Anton was running it and still isn't with the second one. It will be just what that family has always wanted, a racing series subserviante to the speedway and the festival that family holds one month out of the year.
Sadly I have to agree, but worse the festival isn't a month long anymore, it's a day, and it isn't even close to being the most important race in the country or world anymore. WInning the race might get you a mediocre NASCAR seat.
Racing Truth
10-03-07, 03:21 PM
GF and KK at least came up the rungs of corp america. FTG is just a member of the Lucky Spemr club.
So, what you're telling me is that TG at least has an excuse for his incompetence, while our guys have none?:\
Anyway, it is an interesting debate, and one I did not intend to start. I recuse myself b/c I've always watched both anyway.
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