Robin Miller

[TedN]

Is this something new?


But, there is no way for me to ignore the very real concerns I have about Champ Car trying to muzzle journalists who don’t toe the party line and who don’t write only PR fluff. I have been worried about this for some time, but am even more concerned about this now with the reported pulling of Robin Miller’s hard card.

Source (http://www.deepthrottle.com/Essays/07_ra_day1.shtml)

Ted

[KLang]

Good, if true. His personal attacks on the series owners and employees have been over the line IMO.

[jcollins28]

Good, if true. His personal attacks on the series owners and employees have been over the line IMO.

Really? How so you and Paper agree on this over a blow me sammich? CHAMP CAR ownership = Meet the new boss same as the old boss. All these years and they still make the same stupid mistakes no matter who is in charge. No worries though Paper still has his hard card!

[Insomniac]

It's quite a shame if true, and this morning I found it odd there was no Friday Notebook on speedtv.com. Looking again, all RA stories are by "RACER Staff".

CC has a right to decide who is and isn't allowed there. I'll withhold my judgment until I hear a reason. If it's because they can't handle crticism, they're being petty. But that wouldn't be a surprise.

[extramundane]

Good, if true. His personal attacks on the series owners and employees have been over the line IMO.

He hasn't said anything that doesn't get said here on a daily basis.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[Hesketh]

Funny, when IMS briefly refused Robin credentials, forum fans bashed TG. Shoe's on the other foot now, and half of you uphold Champ Car's decision. :shakehead




There's some strong koolaid out there: 2 flavors that are strikingly similar, if you ask me.

[STD]

Motorock on Paul! :shakehead :gomer:

[oddlycalm]

half of you uphold Champ Car's decision. :shakehead

There's some strong koolaid out there: 2 flavors that are strikingly similar, if you ask me. First of all, speak for yourself. I'll decide what I think once it become clear what happened. For the record, at one time or another every member of this particular forum that I can think of has been critical of CCWS management decisions.

The Koolaid is weak. I wasn't deluded by TG's transparent power grab and I'm not under any false illusions about CCWS.

oc

[spinner26]

if true, this solidifies my belief that CCWS is a private, spec., club racing series. Do as we say and tow the company line blowing and sucking like paper or get out.

What a sad day if this is true. Passion and honesty put to the wayside for puffy blowhard mouthpieces.:shakehead :thumdown:

[Cam]

And with this news the collective koolaid chuggers at CCfantasys celebrate the muzzling of yet another champion of the truth. :irked:

[ferrarigod]

Good, if true. His personal attacks on the series owners and employees have been over the line IMO.

yea, cause they are real darlings and deserve our unfettered support. :rolleyes:


if Champ Car really pulled Robins creds, and ,,,,,,,, is walking around free of charge, this management is worse than I thought.

Probably another brilliant idea from the Gentiloser as backlash from Robins' Steve Johnson is fired article.

[Sean O'Gorman]

,,,,,,

[KLang]

My id is the same at crapwagon, try to find my support for paper. :rolleyes:

IMO Miller crossed the line. Simply my opinion.

edit:
I usually ignore this stuff but....

This is also over the line:

Really? How so you and Paper agree on this over a blow me sammich?

[Eagle104]

Didn't he recently say that CC should pull-the-plug, which in effect means to turn it all over to the idiot grandson, for the good of the sport, or something like that?

He lost me at that point. That was just stupid - on every level.

[Jag_Warrior]

As long as we've got Champ Car Charlie, I'm happy.

[Fio1]

Good. Robin Miller was completely useless.

[spinner26]

So far as I can tell this is only news here, wonder why it hasn't reached the other forums yet?

Seems to me CCF and TF would be all kinda woot woot over this.

[Insomniac]

Didn't he recently say that CC should pull-the-plug, which in effect means to turn it all over to the idiot grandson, for the good of the sport, or something like that?

He lost me at that point. That was just stupid - on every level.

I disagree. I doubt he actually wants TG to run the show, but he sees it as pretty much the only thing that can be done to stop the downward sprial of USOWR.

I really believe this can only go so many ways.

1. Merger
2. IRL sells out to CC
3. CC sells out to IRL
4. Both continue as is into obscurity. Some may contend one side or the other could break out of the spiral, but IMO it's doubtful. CC has pretty much bottomed out. Indy 500 ratings continue to slide. TG follows CART/CC by 3 or so years, so if CC has any success, TG will copy it and just water it all down again.

I think if #4 happens, GF and KK will eventually close up shop. And we'll be left with CART II. #2 will never happen. #1 doesn't seem to be working out. Only leaves #3 as a potential solution to save US OWR right now.

I don't like the idea, and I honestly can't say if I'd watch or not if TG had full control. It's not really about the guy in charge, it's about what's on track to me. That's how I ended up watching CART and not the IRL.

Given the choice between nothing and something, the few people left who care might prefer something.

[KLang]

I disagree. I doubt he actually wants TG to run the show, but he sees it as pretty much the only thing that can be done to stop the downward sprial of USOWR.


At this point I think the only thing Miller cares about is the 500. But I don't think even if Champ Car capitulated the 500 will ever be restored to the pre split days.

[Chief]

Hardcard? You folks are whipping this up...

When CCWS refuses SpeedTV credentials for Robin Miller THEN I'll be pizzed. Pulling a hardcard means (to me) he can't come and go as he pleases at all races. Regardless, RM is free to write what ever he wants and he will so who cares whether he's got a hardcard....? RM knows the difference between editorial and news reporting, CCWS should too.

[Turbodog]

Good, if true. His personal attacks on the series owners and employees have been over the line IMO.


Oh please. :rolleyes:

[Insomniac]

At this point I think the only thing Miller cares about is the 500. But I don't think even if Champ Car capitulated the 500 will ever be restored to the pre split days.

I really believe RM cares about OWR. He's quite vocal about all the changes. I think Indy could certainly go back in the other directions if you really had more than 33 cars qualifying at the beginning of the first weekend with only one series. I also think it would be a lot more than Indy that would benefit from only one series. The stability and combined assets would be even more beneficial.

[Insomniac]

Hardcard? You folks are whipping this up...

When CCWS refuses SpeedTV credentials for Robin Miller THEN I'll be pizzed. Pulling a hardcard means (to me) he can't come and go as he pleases at all races. Regardless, RM is free to write what ever he wants and he will so who cares whether he's got a hardcard....? RM knows the difference between editorial and news reporting, CCWS should too.

IIRC, Robin said he would be at RA. David Phillips isn't writing the articles this week. No Friday Notebook. The Saturday one was written by David Malcher. Of the six articles from RA this weekend on speedtv.com, RACER staff wrote four, Champ Car Communications wrote one and David Malcher the most recent one (Saturday Notebook). Is there any chance that both Robin Miller and David Phillips didn't get the RA assignment?

[GLenz]

Chickenshit.

[Hesketh]

First of all, speak for yourself. I'll decide what I think once it become clear what happened. For the record, at one time or another every member of this particular forum that I can think of has been critical of CCWS management decisions.

The Koolaid is weak. I wasn't deluded by TG's transparent power grab and I'm not under any false illusions about CCWS.

oc


First of all, don't be rude.
Second, I did speak for myself, but I see a lot of people here feel much the same.

[Hesketh]

I disagree. I doubt he actually wants TG to run the show, but he sees it as pretty much the only thing that can be done to stop the downward sprial of USOWR.

I really believe this can only go so many ways.

1. Merger
2. IRL sells out to CC
3. CC sells out to IRL
4. Both continue as is into obscurity. Some may contend one side or the other could break out of the spiral, but IMO it's doubtful. CC has pretty much bottomed out. Indy 500 ratings continue to slide. TG follows CART/CC by 3 or so years, so if CC has any success, TG will copy it and just water it all down again.

I think if #4 happens, GF and KK will eventually close up shop. And we'll be left with CART II. #2 will never happen. #1 doesn't seem to be working out. Only leaves #3 as a potential solution to save US OWR right now.

I don't like the idea, and I honestly can't say if I'd watch or not if TG had full control. It's not really about the guy in charge, it's about what's on track to me. That's how I ended up watching CART and not the IRL.

Given the choice between nothing and something, the few people left who care might prefer something.


I agree with much of what you say. Robin is a friend of mine and I know that
he wants a healthy OW environment in the US; he is not "all about the 500" as some people say.

Your scenarios are pretty believable. I, too, can foresee GF and KK walking away. GF has done it before and there are rumors around the paddock that he's shutting down his team at the end of this year. He seems to have lost interest. Again.

The only saving grace I can hope for is that enough former CART (yes, I said CART) people will infiltrate the IRL to make enough changes that it's good: i.e., car design for starters.

But who knows?

[Dr. Corkski]

Paul Gentilozzi is a creative, intelligent, brilliant, and honest businessman of utmost integrity that will lead champ car past the heights of F1.

You can go ahead and send me a hardcard after you are done sending them to klang and chief.

[jcollins28]

Funny, when IMS briefly refused Robin credentials, forum fans bashed TG. Shoe's on the other foot now, and half of you uphold Champ Car's decision. :shakehead




There's some strong koolaid out there: 2 flavors that are strikingly similar, if you ask me.


LOL funny I said the exact same thing thing over at fantasyland forums. They did not agree with me.

[STD]

Paul Gentilozzi is a creative, intelligent, brilliant, and honest businessman of utmost integrity that will lead champ car past the heights of F1.


You forgot to add the part about him being a great iconic driver, super team owner who has always treated his employees well and an always fair competitor... above all else! ;)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ankf00]

Good, if true. His personal attacks on the series owners and employees have been over the line IMO.

And every Houston columnist should not be allowed access to Astros events b/c they called Drayton too cheap to know what he was doing?

Every Dallas coumnist should not be allowed access to Cowboys events for all the times they said Jerrah was too arrogant and too ignorant when it came to managing football operations?

Columnists write opinions, as public figures the series owners are fair game, same as any other sports owner in the world. Only difference is all those other owners, the one with legitimate professional franchises that actually produce profits and bring in TV viewership, can manage their businesses professionally.

Well, everyone except Jerrah and Steinbrennah...

[jcollins28]

And every Houston columnist should not be allowed access to Astros events b/c they called Drayton too cheap to know what he was doing?

Every Dallas coumnist should not be allowed access to Cowboys events for all the times they said Jerrah was too arrogant and too ignorant when it came to managing football operations?

Columnists write opinions, as public figures the series owners are fair game, same as any other sports owner in the world. Only difference is all those other owners, the one with legitimate professional franchises that actually produce profits and bring in TV viewership, can manage their businesses professionally.

Well, everyone except Jerrah and Steinbrennah...

Jerrah is a pimp

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2pKPBiii7lc

[Jag_Warrior]

Given the choice between nothing and something, the few people left who care might prefer something.

Great observation. But still, it's very sad that it's come to this.

[RTKar]

Whatever happened to freedom of the press?

Pathetic move by a pathetic management. Very tony george like :thumdown:

[cameraman]

Has Robin Miller commented on all this or even confirmed it to be true?

[trauma1]

gentaloser always has paper to write drivel:rolleyes:

[nrc]

Whatever happened to freedom of the press?

Pathetic move by a pathetic management. Very tony george like :thumdown:

Freedom of the press relates to government restrictions. You don't have to let Geraldo rummage through your underwear drawer and Gerry doesn't have to give Robin a hard card.

No question that it reflects poorly on management. But it's not like Miller is banned from the grounds and it's not like writers haven't been banned from the clubhouse in other sports.

[G.]

Has Robin Miller commented on all this or even confirmed it to be true?Kirby confirms:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no81.html


Then of course, there's the matter of Champ Car's complete lack of credibility with the American media. I've reported a number of times about the tiny and dwindling press corps covering Champ Car and sadly, this little group is only getting smaller. At Elkhart last weekend quite a few fans asked me if it was true that Robin Miller's hard card had been revoked by Champ Car.

I told them it was true and added that the result of Champ Car's heavy-handed move is that Speed TV's coverage of Champ Car will be token at best. This was the inevitable result of the contempt Champ Car showed for Miller and the fact that Champ Car didn't understand what they were doing shows they are an amateur organization that is doomed to life at the margins of the media.

I also confirmed to those fans who asked that it was true that I have been chased away from doing any writing on Champ Car's content-free website. Champ Car told me they have a very limited budget for their website and can't afford experienced writers with a track record. Nor is Champ Car interested in full and complete works of journalism. They are only interested in soundbites totalling a few hundred words and as I've told Champ Car I have no interest in that type of work. So if you want to continue reading my work you'll have to come to this site because neither Robin nor I have the inclination or interest to work for such an apparently cash-strapped, narrow-minded organization.

[TU Homer]

As long as we've got Champ Car Charlie, I'm happy.

It just hit me. CCC is ,,,,,,,,,paper,,,,,,,,,,

Works cheap, all it costs is a free hardcard, and an occasional acknowledgement from SJ at a race, and CCC is happy.

-TU

[ferrarigod]

Kirby confirms:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2007/the_way_it_is_no81.html

guess the DP01 didn't save the series. so long champ car.

[rocket]

ChampCar management, sometimes it's like watching the 3 stooges do surgery.



Of course that could be argued to be a management thing, no matter what the business is.

[TU Homer]

guess the DP01 didn't save the series. so long champ car.

maybe so...fat lady ain't singing yet, but she's clearing her voice.

the part that kills me, is the track-fans thiink TG won. I guess he did, but really what happened is the Indy500 won. I guess they're right. It's the only race that matters. Everything else is sorta interesting.


-TU

[Chief]

Sure, after dragging OW into the toilet to get his satisfaction FTG won. He doesn't have a clue where to go from here.

I'm interested to hear Mr. Miller's write-up on the several flying car incidents this year, all in IRL. If he missed this chance to slam then I call BS on him and will think there is an agenda along with GK.

[Hesketh]

... FTG won. He doesn't have a clue where to go from here.




Sadly, neither do GF and KK. :(

[Cam]

Turn out the lights.... The party's over...:cry:

[Insomniac]

Great observation. But still, it's very sad that it's come to this.

Thanks. :)

It is very sad. Personally, the only reason I stick around is I grew up watching Indy Cars. I know if I hadn't known about them before say 2000-2002, there would probably be no way they could get me to watch and keep watching. I know for me, the "hook" was probably the Indy 500. I liked what I saw, kept watching the other races and became a fan. I probably didn't even know there was a split until a couple years after it happened. I remember watching the IRL at Disney World wondering what that crap was. Luckily I found CART races as well. And found the US 500/Indy 500 thing odd, but watched the US500. Once I finally figure out what was going on (courtesy of the Interweb), I stuck to one series (CART).

[Chief]

Sadly, neither do GF and KK. :(
I don't disagree with you. They're horrible at damage control too....

[Ankf00]

It is very sad. Personally, the only reason I stick around is I grew up watching Indy Cars. I know if I hadn't known about them before say 2000-2002, there would probably be no way they could get me to watch and keep watching. same here.


I'm interested to hear Mr. Miller's write-up on the several flying car incidents this year, all in IRL. If he missed this chance to slam then I call BS on him and will think there is an agenda along with GK. I recall RM writing quite a few scathing pieces abuot the league and their "safety" before.

[RTKar]

John Stuart Mill's On Liberty:

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person was of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is that it robs the human race, posterity as well as the existing generation. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity to exchange error for truth; if wrong, they lose what is almost as great a benefit - the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error." (Mill)

Mill's ideas are also presentable in the form of four arguments against censorship:

If we silence an opinion, for all we know, we are silencing truth

A wrong opinion may contain a grain of truth necessary for finding the whole truth

Commonly held opinions tend to become prejudices unless forced to be defended

Unless commonly held opinions are contested from time to time, they lose their vitality

[trauma1]

John Stuart Mill's On Liberty:

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person was of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is that it robs the human race, posterity as well as the existing generation. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity to exchange error for truth; if wrong, they lose what is almost as great a benefit - the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error." (Mill)

Mill's ideas are also presentable in the form of four arguments against censorship:

If we silence an opinion, for all we know, we are silencing truth

A wrong opinion may contain a grain of truth necessary for finding the whole truth

Commonly held opinions tend to become prejudices unless forced to be defended

Unless commonly held opinions are contested from time to time, they lose their vitality

ya might want to post this at CCF:rofl:

[Insomniac]

ChampCar management, sometimes it's like watching the 3 stooges do surgery.

At least it was funny when the Three Stooges did it. :)

[Insomniac]

John Stuart Mill's On Liberty:

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person was of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is that it robs the human race, posterity as well as the existing generation. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity to exchange error for truth; if wrong, they lose what is almost as great a benefit - the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error." (Mill)

Mill's ideas are also presentable in the form of four arguments against censorship:

If we silence an opinion, for all we know, we are silencing truth

A wrong opinion may contain a grain of truth necessary for finding the whole truth

Commonly held opinions tend to become prejudices unless forced to be defended

Unless commonly held opinions are contested from time to time, they lose their vitality

This is an all too common trend. Journalism in the Unites States has suffered greatly over the years. The people being covered have a lot more power to control the media by denying access, agreeing to interviews that will only paint you in a positive light and corporate agendas/needs of what was once a business not run to make money.

[Indy]

The funny thing is that this sort of heavy handed behavior only works when used from a position of power. What in God's name makes anyone at Champ Car think that the bosses of media companies even know who they are, much less care about covering them? They are making themselves a nuisance and they will be ignored.

[FTG]

So Robin Miller's hard card kept the series alive all these years. Maybe if we stick it in a safe deposit box it'll keep working.

[Insomniac]

So Robin Miller's hard card kept the series alive all these years. Maybe if we stick it in a safe deposit box it'll keep working.

I liked reading the notebooks at speedtv.com. First they went from 4 to 2 pages (not CC's fault), and now this weekend, there was only 1 (CC's fault). If that is the end of SPEED's coverage of CC, what's left? Oreo on ESPN? CCC? Anything else? I doubt less press will help the series.

[Hesketh]

If that is the end of SPEED's coverage of CC, what's left?


It just might be; apparently, Speed was so ticked off about the pulling of Robin's hardcard, they're not sending anyone to Champ Car races the rest of the year. CC's loss.

[FCYTravis]

It just might be; apparently, Speed was so ticked off about the pulling of Robin's hardcard, they're not sending anyone to Champ Car races the rest of the year. CC's loss.
Wow.

[Ziggy]

they were not going to send anyone to Europe anyhow

rubbin's racing..........:gomer:

[Insomniac]

It just might be; apparently, Speed was so ticked off about the pulling of Robin's hardcard, they're not sending anyone to Champ Car races the rest of the year. CC's loss.

I guess that's Speed's loss partially too. I know the number of times I look at the CC section will drop noticeably if all they're going to publish are Champ Car press releases.

[TU Homer]

It just might be; apparently, Speed was so ticked off about the pulling of Robin's hardcard, they're not sending anyone to Champ Car races the rest of the year. CC's loss.

anyone notice that Phillips hasn't added anything since the 10th? Been looking for his romantic drivel about the track/race. nothing.


-TU

[trauma1]

apparently CC spin control was done by an internet freind of gentalosi they flew him into cleveland just to take care of the situation, :gomer:

[KLang]

never mind

[devilmaster]

as some others have said:

I know there's alot who don't like what Robin or Kirby write...

But alienating them and more or less sticking it to them by making it harder for them to do their job? How does this help CC who already has a problem with getting their msg out?

There ain't many writers who follow CC on a regular basis and show up at most (if not all) the tracks.

If what Hesketh says is true (and I have no reason to doubt him, I expected Speed to do this), losing Speed in any capacity is akin to amputating your leg because you don't like your pinky toe. Its silly, especially when you need as much press as you can get. Someone once said: it doesn't matter if they cheer you or boo you. If they stop doing both, then you've got a problem.

Oh well, maybe we'll just replace our current stock of writers with people like Cave-in or McNutty. Yeah, that'll work. :irked:

[Ankf00]

Oh well, maybe we'll just replace our current stock of writers with people like Cave-in or McNutty. Yeah, that'll work. :irked:

you forgot the empowered 'net-tard "journalist" movement ;)


It's the future!

[stroker]

y'know, I have to wonder if AOW's status has sunk so low that it really doesn't matter whether they lose the good graces of "journalists", Speed Channel, or anybody else, for that matter. I think it may now a case of so few people hearing the tree fall that it doesn't make a sound.

[FanofMario]

Regardless of your opinions of either Miller or Kirby, the pulling of Miller's card is another stupid move by Champcar. What is the purpose despite pettiness? :\
I browse both this site and Fanatics and I am increasingly amazed on how anybody who dares to question the management, their loyalty to the sport is questioned.

This sport is beyond critical condition. It sure doesn't need a series putting a muzzle on those who cover it.:irked:

[Andrew Longman]

y'know, I have to wonder if AOW's status has sunk so low that it really doesn't matter whether they lose the good graces of "journalists", Speed Channel, or anybody else, for that matter. I think it may now a case of so few people hearing the tree fall that it doesn't make a sound.

That's pretty much the case I believe.

The press that's now most important to CC is the local press that surrounds a race weekend. Of the 100K +/- that attend a race weekend, most will only hear about the series in the weeks leading up to the race from the local paper and TV. Being nice to the local press, giving them a ride in a 2 seater, etc. usually does the job.

For the rest of us hardcores, we know where to find the latest deep dirt. CC doesn't need to pay RM et al to make it happen, especially when they are making distracting noise (even if it is the truth).

But yanking hardcards is just stirring up more distractions. Not sure I see the point.

[Insomniac]

That's pretty much the case I believe.

The press that's now most important to CC is the local press that surrounds a race weekend. Of the 100K +/- that attend a race weekend, most will only hear about the series in the weeks leading up to the race from the local paper and TV. Being nice to the local press, giving them a ride in a 2 seater, etc. usually does the job.

For the rest of us hardcores, we know where to find the latest deep dirt. CC doesn't need to pay RM et al to make it happen, especially when they are making distracting noise (even if it is the truth).

But yanking hardcards is just stirring up more distractions. Not sure I see the point.

They weren't paying RM though. They were last year for articles he wrote for their web site, but they fired him this year.

The local media doesn't write any "deep dirt" if that's what you are looking for. There are not many places for us to just read some stuff about CC and getting rid of journalists isn't going to increase coverage.

This may all be an effort in futility, but they're still shooting themselves in the foot, again.

[Insomniac]

y'know, I have to wonder if AOW's status has sunk so low that it really doesn't matter whether they lose the good graces of "journalists", Speed Channel, or anybody else, for that matter. I think it may now a case of so few people hearing the tree fall that it doesn't make a sound.

I'd say it has sunk that low. There isn't much room left to fall. The ratings are very low, <1M viewers. Track attendance is going down. They drop events that have low attendance and add a new race which they'll drop once the luster wears off. The driver line-ups are a revolving door. They are not able to hook anyone for the most part. So losing some press won't matter right now. Most people won't even notice.

[Andrew Longman]

Insomniac, I think we agree.

CC is not, and has not captured much national attention in a while. The press coverage that works for them now is the local press that stirs up local interest around the race. Most race attendees and regular viewers are happy with whatever news they get from prerace coverage and occasional Sportcenter report.

Hardcore junkies like you and me who want more will always know where to find it and will be willing to look. But we are few in numbers. CC doesn't need much more right now because they are so low it wouldn't do much good anyway.

More national press would help get sponsors though. I suppose you could argue if Kirby and Miller are the only national press you are getting and all they are saying is you are f'd up, then that's national press you don't need.

[Duroc]

There isn't much room left to fall.

It's a smoldering lump at the bottom of an impact crater. At this point the leagues (split or merged) are startups requiring an immense amount of capital to get out of that hole.

The current operators will putter along small time with whatever bucks there are to be made.

[opinionated ow]

It's a smoldering lump at the bottom of an impact crater. At this point the leagues (split or merged) are startups requiring an immense amount of capital to get out of that hole.

The current operators will putter along small time with whatever bucks there are to be made.

took the words out of my mouth. a quick way to get people would be to put 750K up for each race...promote that figure not only to the media, but to the fans, the car owners and everyone. if you put 750K for the winner, you will easily make that back in entry fees and sponsorship

[JoeBob]

I'd be really curious to know what CC thought they'd accomplish by pulling his hard card. It really doesn't make sense on any level.

He can still go to races. He can buy a ticket, or he can apply for credentials with the track. He can still talk to all of the people he's always talked to - the man does have a telephone.

He can still write whatever he wants, and sell it to whomever he wants. They can't restrict what people write about the series.

If you don't like the negative things he has written, making his life more difficult isn't going to improve his view of you.

So, the question is, "What did they think they'd accomplish?"

[Indy]

I'd be really curious to know what CC thought they'd accomplish by pulling his hard card. It really doesn't make sense on any level.

He can still go to races. He can buy a ticket, or he can apply for credentials with the track. He can still talk to all of the people he's always talked to - the man does have a telephone.

He can still write whatever he wants, and sell it to whomever he wants. They can't restrict what people write about the series.

If you don't like the negative things he has written, making his life more difficult isn't going to improve his view of you.

So, the question is, "What did they think they'd accomplish?"

Teaching him "a lesson."

People who think like that should not be running anything.

[G.]

JoeBob, Indy, there's got to be something else to this. It's just TOO stupid, it baffles my small brain. This is third grader ****.

My guess is that he's banned from the tracks, which is so incredibly dumb. Otherwise, if he can still get in w/o the HC, "What did they think they'd accomplish?"

So which is dumber, making it a bit more difficult to get into the tracks, or banning him for good? A question without an answer.:shakehead

[Indy]

If there is more to it, then someone at CCWS should be communicating that. Whatever impression the fans are given will be the reality of the situation.

[DagoFast]

If there is more to it, then someone at CCWS should be communicating that. Whatever impression the fans are given will be the reality of the situation.


:rofl: :rofl: :D :)

Indy brings the funny!

[Chief]

I'm hearing from several sources that the entire press community has/is turning their collective noses up as a result of CCWS' actions. Pretty poor strategic decisions by CCWS.:shakehead

....dump Ford
....adopt Euro rules
....adopt standing starts
....internet fodder by SJ
....no more "support"
....balky DP01
....fire respected journalists
....alienate press corps
....alienate fanbase

Jeez, is there anything left but to close up shop?:confused:

[Indy]

Jeez, is there anything left but to close up shop?:confused:

Call for a meeting with TG's lawyer and a blank check...

[nrc]

I'm hearing from several sources that the entire press community has/is turning their collective noses up as a result of CCWS' actions. Pretty poor strategic decisions by CCWS.:shakehead

....dump Ford


I'm not sure we can really count this as a bad decsion. They seem to be getting just as much support from Mazda without the badging which opened the door for deals like the one with Audi for Assen. With Mazda's involvement I doubt that they've upset Ford too much so I really don't see any net loss there.

[trauma1]

FOrd racing was pissed royally about the backroom deal to get stoddart in ,which included his making $$ with the 2 seater, someone else where tried to tell me that Mazda took over for Ford, news to me

[Insomniac]

I'd be really curious to know what CC thought they'd accomplish by pulling his hard card. It really doesn't make sense on any level.

He can still go to races. He can buy a ticket, or he can apply for credentials with the track. He can still talk to all of the people he's always talked to - the man does have a telephone.

He can still write whatever he wants, and sell it to whomever he wants. They can't restrict what people write about the series.

If you don't like the negative things he has written, making his life more difficult isn't going to improve his view of you.

So, the question is, "What did they think they'd accomplish?"

Sure, he can do that, but as seen at RA, he/SPEED chose not to do any of it. So maybe they got exactly what they wanted. RM to stop covering CC races.

[Insomniac]

I'm hearing from several sources that the entire press community has/is turning their collective noses up as a result of CCWS' actions. Pretty poor strategic decisions by CCWS.:shakehead

....dump Ford
....adopt Euro rules
....adopt standing starts
....internet fodder by SJ
....no more "support"
....balky DP01
....fire respected journalists
....alienate press corps
....alienate fanbase

Jeez, is there anything left but to close up shop?:confused:

I like the standing starts, way better than the rolling starts. I also like the DP01, but wish they had the starters working.

[Insomniac]

FOrd racing was pissed royally about the backroom deal to get stoddart in ,which included his making $$ with the 2 seater, someone else where tried to tell me that Mazda took over for Ford, news to me

The point is CC doesn't seem to have lost as much as it appeared they would when they announced Ford was out. Mazda is running plenty of commercials and they now provide the pace car and safety vehicles. The only difference I see is the engines aren't badged and CCWS isn't powered by Ford.

[oddlycalm]

First of all, don't be rude.
Second, I did speak for myself, but I see a lot of people here feel much the same. Not being rude, just pointing out that accusations of Koolaid consumption here are undeserved. Your comment that a lot of people here feel the same way simply confirms that.

In any case, I'd not be cutting journalists out of the loop for anything short of egregious or illegal behaviour were I running an entertainment business.

oc

[Racing Truth]

I'm hearing from several sources that the entire press community has/is turning their collective noses up as a result of CCWS' actions. Pretty poor strategic decisions by CCWS.:shakehead

....dump Ford
....adopt Euro rules
....adopt standing starts
....internet fodder by SJ
....no more "support"
....balky DP01
....fire respected journalists
....alienate press corps
....alienate fanbase

Jeez, is there anything left but to close up shop?:confused:

SHOCKING!*

*And by shocking, I mean totally predictable.

Seriously, running an organization is not at all like a political campaign, where you try to spread your message via favorable outlets. Instead, you have to professionally deal with media outlets who are not always favorable to you. A few folks here, and at FantasyLand, don't get that.

As to your last line, if the organization keeps acting like this, then yes, shut her down.

[Ziggy]

Lets see now

Been following the sport for forty years. I have been going to (champcar) races for thirtyone years.

I was Elkhart Lake thinking to myself, "This may very well be my last race."

Why? Simple, it's boring. Road America swallowed that seventeen car grid like a ping pong ball in a warehouse. Not to mention the fact that half the field (uh, that would be eight) are stone cold no hopers. Even Bruno, who has tarnished his reputation as a darn good racer IMO, was denied a chance to make the race exciting due to a "jumped start" How in the hell can you jump a start driving for Dale Coyne? Thats akin to a thirty year old getting into a fight with a ten year old and crying foul due to the fact that the ten year old got in the first punch.

Then there is the travel expenses. Most of the races were Mid West based. Plenty actually. Where did those fans go? Why did they tune out? I enjoy watching races in Europe. I call it Formula One! Brand and Date equity play a huge role in successful continual operation. This seems to be lost on the leading lights at Champcar.

The Internet is full of "experts", who propogate rumors into facts quicker than Lindsey checks out of rehab. Posturing on half truths, out and out lies seems to be the battle cry of the wanna'be's.

And their (Champcar) are going to covet the "Internet audience." That makes me laugh, as there can not be more than five thousand US Internet "fans" tops.

Both sanctioning bodies have a rotting corpse on their hands. Did you ever see a time when you thought the "inheritor" would be a better choice to run Open Wheel than this band of Jacktards who run Champcar?

rant off

[trauma1]

rant on more, the revolving door of management is a joke, they fired or drove out people who knew wtf was going on , the hiring of the milwaukee mile gang was a disaster , johnson the same, i feel real sorry for cotman, he's going to have to his back real close

[SteveH]

I don't know what all the problems are or were. I just know I expected more at this point. Maybe if I/we knew more of the difficulties CC has faced we'd be more forgiving. Maybe not. Some of what has been done seems counterproductive to the results I would like to see. Which makes me think, what I want and what CC is going to deliver are two entirely different products. I'd like to go to several races each year. But not now. There's maybe two I could attend in the midwest. Two, that's all. Both require overnight stays, = $$$. Add in airfare if I'm going to any beyond the midwest and it becomes a luxury to attend a race. That's not how you build a fan base.

[Hesketh]

In any case, I'd not be cutting journalists out of the loop for anything short of egregious or illegal behaviour were I running an entertainment business.

oc


Then we agree.



Robin had his hard card revoked, but could apply for media credentials. However, SPEED is so ticked off at the way Champ Car treated him, they have decided at this time they will not be covering CC for the rest of the year.

I think CC's move was childish, foolish and pointless. It makes them look petty and ridiculous. But I suppose they have a right to do that (revoke his hard card and look petty and ridiculous). However, their legitimacy and credibility are in the toilet.

[SteveH]

There's a poster at another forum that has been on a rant all season long about Miller. You don't suppose he had anything to do with influencing the brass at CC, do you? Sad, if true.

[Ziggy]

"However, their legitimacy and credibility are in the toilet."

Like it was soaring in the first place:laugh: How in the world can these guys screw up so many times? They make the guy from Terre Haute look like a mensa member

[Wally]

For those of us who are not bilingual, just plain dense or otherwise having a sofware glitch and not able to view all post would someone please summarize what, where and who that we know for fact.

Other than RM losing his hard card, although I have seen nothing from him, pretend I know nothing. :gomer:

Oh, and once again in english please. Thank You.

[opinionated ow]

There's a poster at another forum that has been on a rant all season long about Miller. You don't suppose he had anything to do with influencing the brass at CC, do you? Sad, if true.

well if the ccfanatasies ring leader (and my internet nemesis :D ) is as influential as he makes himself out to be,,,

[nrc]

Someone mentioned a fan forum at RA. Were any of these issues mentioned?

[FCYTravis]

I'm hearing from several sources that the entire press community has/is turning their collective noses up as a result of CCWS' actions.
:shakehead

There is a strong sense of solidarity between journalists, and among the small, tight-knit community of motorsports journalists I believe it's even stronger than usual. An attack on one is very much considered an attack on all.

The message sent by Champ Car here is unmistakable - "write something we don't like, and you don't get a hard card." That mentality is anathema to quality journalism, and the response - "fine, we won't write anything about you at all" is utterly predictable.

What makes it truly worse for Champ Car is that they are in a position of absolutely zero negotiating strength. Champ Car desperately needs every shred of media coverage and credibility it can get - and here they go, flipping the bird to the motorsports media community. Astounding. :irked:

[SteveH]

well if the ccfanatasies ring leader (and my internet nemesis :D ) is as influential as he makes himself out to be,,,

That's why the question was asked. Putting a smack on Miller is petty and weak. I don't care what he wrote, at least he wrote about Champ Car. If CC and some of its fans can't take the heat for their actions, then the series will tank in short order. How do you think the rest of the press looks on this? They will just ignore CC in the future. This is going to blow up in CC's face.

[KLang]

Most seem to be assuming the hard card thing was because of what he wrote. Yet we have seen nothing official from Miller or anyone within ChampCar to indicate what the reason was. What if it was for some other reason???

[Spicoli]

I don't know what all the problems are or were. I just know I expected more at this point. Maybe if I/we knew more of the difficulties CC has faced we'd be more forgiving. Maybe not. Some of what has been done seems counterproductive to the results I would like to see. Which makes me think, what I want and what CC is going to deliver are two entirely different products. I'd like to go to several races each year. But not now. There's maybe two I could attend in the midwest. Two, that's all. Both require overnight stays, = $$$. Add in airfare if I'm going to any beyond the midwest and it becomes a luxury to attend a race. That's not how you build a fan base.

Yup. Agreed 10000%. Road trips to Chi, Det, MilMile, MIS, MO and Gateway are a thing of the past. Helllooooooo Assen!:shakehead


There's a poster at another forum that has been on a rant all season long about Miller. You don't suppose he had anything to do with influencing the brass at CC, do you? Sad, if true.

That poster even alleges he abetted in the process...... And was involved in the decision. Sad indeed.

Fantasyland is going down quick. grab your name in green and get out while you can.:yuck:

[devilmaster]

Most seem to be assuming the hard card thing was because of what he wrote. Yet we have seen nothing official from Miller or anyone within ChampCar to indicate what the reason was. What if it was for some other reason???

Then it would be in the best interest of CC to come out and explain why. If Miller did something truly bad or nasty, then CC can save themselves alot of embarassment and lost credibility by coming out and saying it.

That being said, I've always been awed by the fact that the NAOW community has never been known to hold secrets. Stuff gets out. We haven't read or heard anything, afaik.

Once again, it comes down to this: If you're going to alienate professional motorsports writers who have resumes that include newspapers, magazines and book authoring.... you better be aware of the possible blowback before you fire the gun.

Especially when you are not in a position of strength, and you need all the press you can get.

[Indy]

Yes. If there is another reason they should communicate it clearly.



I can't even type that with a straight face.