View Full Version : Criminal investigation against Nigel Stepney
oddlycalm
06-22-07, 03:07 PM
Saw this yesterday. Still no comments or clarification. This has got to raise the tension level a notch or two...
Ferrari charges Stepney in criminal case (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60025)
The Modena district attorney in Italy has opened criminal investigation against Ferrari stalwart Nigel Stepney, after the Maranello outfit filed a formal complaint earlier this week.
oc
chop456
06-22-07, 03:11 PM
The details have not been divulged, but team principal Jean Todt admitted to La Gazzetta dello Sport that the action relates to alleged "illegal" behaviour and will be handled by an Italian court.
The sports newspaper also hints at sabotage, and an incident prior to the Monaco grand prix when white powder was discovered in the fuel tank of Felipe Massa's car and sent to the police.
http://flagworld.auto123.com/en/racing/news/index,view.spy?artid=84800
Methanolandbrats
06-22-07, 03:16 PM
Being F1, he could'nt just put sugar in the gas tank, he probably had to source some exotic material that cost $750 an ounce.
Being F1, he could'nt just put sugar in the gas tank, he probably had to source some exotic material that cost $750 an ounce.
only 750? what kind of discount are you guys getting up there? :eek:
Being F1, he could'nt just put sugar in the gas tank, he probably had to source some exotic material that cost $750 an ounce.
Ground up Moon rocks.
Ground up Moon rocks.
Ank's dandruff....
:D
what a dumbass....he failed :D
Ank's dandruff....
:D
my raven locks are glorious.
my raven locks are glorious.
Time to hand in that man card........:saywhat: :gomer:
devilmaster
06-23-07, 02:28 AM
Time to hand in that man card........:saywhat: :gomer:
And take the man card away from the guy who gave Ank a card in the first place! :saywhat:
;)
everyone's jealous. everyone.
everyone's jealous. everyone.
Sheesh! Don't get your turban in a twist! :p
jonovision_man
07-03-07, 10:06 PM
This has gone from bizarre to real super sabotoge and possible cheating by Maclaren! :eek:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60466
Mike Coughlan, McLaren's chief designer, is the senior engineer suspected of espionage against Ferrari, autosport.com has learned.
The 48-year-old Briton is suspected of unlawfully obtaining technical material belonging to Ferrari in collaboration with Ferrari's Nigel Stepney.
In a search conducted by the police at Coughlan's house today, documents allegedly belonging to Ferrari were found, leading McLaren to suspend him while Ferrari said they reserve the right to pursue further legal action.
Wow...
jono
Insomniac
07-03-07, 10:17 PM
This has gone from bizarre to real super sabotoge and possible cheating by Maclaren! :eek:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60466
Wow...
jono
I felt this was coming when they said the guy was a Brit.
nissan gtp
07-04-07, 08:13 AM
looks like a nice mess. good thing the Italian judicial system is taking care of it :eek: :rofl:
No Ferrari elements in team or car
"Following the earlier news that a McLaren engineer has been suspended in connection with alleged theft of technical information from Ferrari, the British team have issued a second statement regarding the matter.
Formula One racing's governing body, the FIA, has also said they are launching a formal investigation into the issue, with the full cooperation of both teams."
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/7/6400.html
Insomniac
07-04-07, 11:24 AM
No Ferrari elements in team or car
"Following the earlier news that a McLaren engineer has been suspended in connection with alleged theft of technical information from Ferrari, the British team have issued a second statement regarding the matter.
Formula One racing's governing body, the FIA, has also said they are launching a formal investigation into the issue, with the full cooperation of both teams."
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/7/6400.html
How would McLaren know there are no Ferrari elements in their car if they shouldn't know what Ferrari elements are? :)
oddlycalm
07-04-07, 06:32 PM
Serious stuff for McLaren to have to sit down their chief engineer mid-season and for Ferrari to dismiss Stepney. Should be some bizarre twists and turns to this story as well as some impact to both the teams.
Meanwhile, Stepney is still on vacation in the Phillipines. He might want to extend that vacation a decade or two....:D That or spend the next 10yrs of my life wrestling with the Italian legal system.
oc
looks like a nice mess. good thing the Italian judicial system is taking care of it :eek: :rofl:
Exactly. The verdict would be something like this: Ferrari finish 1, 2 at Monza even if McLaren were 1, 2 on the road and Heidfeld finished third....:shakehead
Dr. Corkski
07-06-07, 12:05 PM
Ron Dennis can make sure that none of his employees even bring a scrap of food into his gestapo barracks, but can't tell that his chief designer is knee deep in industrial espionage. :tony:
oddlycalm
07-06-07, 02:23 PM
Ron Dennis can make sure that none of his employees even bring a scrap of food into his gestapo barracks, but can't tell that his chief designer is knee deep in industrial espionage. :tony:
Perhaps because it had nothing to do with McLaren? Turns out Stepney and Coughlan were shopping themselves to Honda as a package and likely planned to use the information once there. Honda confirms approach by Stepney and Coughlin
(http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60550)
Carry on with your insightful comparison of a racing shop manager to genocidal psychopaths...
oc
Insomniac
07-06-07, 02:37 PM
Perhaps because it had nothing to do with McLaren? Turns out Stepney and Coughlan were shopping themselves to Honda as a package and likely planned to use the information once there. Honda confirms approach by Stepney and Coughlin
(http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60550)
Carry on with your insightful comparison of a racing shop manager to genocidal psychopaths...
oc
Unless Coughlan quit doing his job, the information provided to him by Stepney had to have some benefit to McLaren if he looked at it. So from my point of view, the information was used by Stepney to benefit McLaren, or he quit doing the job for McLaren. I don't see how he could have the information and not use it (whether it was using the information to improve the car or knowing what not to do).
oddlycalm
07-06-07, 04:18 PM
Unless Coughlan quit doing his job, the information provided to him by Stepney had to have some benefit to McLaren if he looked at it. Obviously so, but my point was that it appears Coughlan was acting alone and not in concert with others at McLaren. It was not some kind of McLaren plot hatched to get secrets from Ferrari.
It's also quite likely that McLaren secrets were also being shopped as part of this since Coughlan has access to everything McLaren just as Stepney has access to all things Ferrari. Apparently Stepney and Coughlan were looking to cash in big with Honda by offering to make them competitive in one fell swoop. Seems a bit naive and childish to think nobody would notice, but greed makes people do crazy things.
oc
Methanolandbrats
07-06-07, 05:31 PM
Turns out Stepney and Coughlan were shopping themselves to Honda as a package and likely planned to use the information once there. Honda confirms approach by Stepney and Coughlin
(http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60550)
Those two stoopid guys were not very good at crime. They should have gone to Toyota cause Yoda has all the money.
cameraman
07-06-07, 05:46 PM
So where is the evidence that either of these guys moved any information?
It sounds like they tried to shop themselves to Honda.
JohnHKart
07-06-07, 06:07 PM
For once, Steve Matchett is wrong.
"I know Nigel Stepney, he would never do that".
Race broadcast, French Grand Prix.
I believed it too, but it's not looking good for Nigel. Incredible.
Insomniac
07-06-07, 06:36 PM
So where is the evidence that either of these guys moved any information?
It sounds like they tried to shop themselves to Honda.
I don't know if the reports were official, but Ferrari documents were said to be found at Coughlan's home.
oddlycalm
07-06-07, 08:03 PM
I don't know if the reports were official, but Ferrari documents were said to be found at Coughlan's home.
McLaren suspect is Mike Coughlan (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60466)
In a search conducted at Coughlan's house today, documents allegedly belonging to Ferrari were found, leading McLaren to suspend him Not exactly official confirmation but McLaren sitting him down is close to a confirmation in and of itself.
It's absolutely amazing to me that two brilliant guys with such long and solid history would decide that this was the way forward. :confused: You don't get the top technical spot at either of these teams if you've shown weakness in any area. Guess they wanted to cash in...
oc
Insomniac
07-06-07, 08:10 PM
McLaren suspect is Mike Coughlan (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60466)
Not exactly official confirmation but McLaren sitting him down is close to a confirmation in and of itself.
It's absolutely amazing to me that two brilliant guys with such long and solid history would decide that this was the way forward. :confused: You don't get the top technical spot at either of these teams if you've shown weakness in any area. Guess they wanted to cash in...
oc
It seems, maybe the two things are separate events. Pure speculation here obviously. Stepney doesn't get promoted to replace Ross Brawn. He's mad and shares Ferrari secrets with Coughlan as spite. They either were friends before this or became friends. They decided to try and get a job together at another team. As designers, a lot of that info/knowledge is probably in their heads.
Accipiter
07-07-07, 10:30 AM
The working theory now is that both Stepney and Coughlin were planning to move to Honda together, so they both decided to amass a bunch of Ferrari and McLaren data to take with them before they left.
oddlycalm
07-08-07, 10:04 PM
So where is the evidence that either of these guys moved any information?
It sounds like they tried to shop themselves to Honda. Apparently the 700-800 pages of stuff taken to a local copy shop for duplication and later found at Coughlan's home. The copy clerk got suspicious of all the material with Ferrari logo and letterhead and contacted the company.
Best part so far IMO is that it appears that these F1 tech titans got busted for being to cheap to spring for a $500 laser multifunction printer/copier...:shakehead :gomer:
oc
eiregosod
07-08-07, 10:14 PM
The working theory now is that both Stepney and Coughlin were planning to move to Honda together, so they both decided to amass a bunch of Ferrari and McLaren data to take with them before they left.
I think they were selling duds to the Frytard
eiregosod
07-08-07, 10:19 PM
It seems, maybe the two things are separate events. Pure speculation here obviously. Stepney doesn't get promoted to replace Ross Brawn. He's mad and shares Ferrari secrets with Coughlan as spite. They either were friends before this or became friends. They decided to try and get a job together at another team. As designers, a lot of that info/knowledge is probably in their heads.
I doubt much was/is in their heads. The tech teams have tens of designers each working on a small aspect of the car. I doubt that they could show up in Brackney & design the new Honda off the bat without reference to the ferrari designs.
I see a movie in the making. :eek: Now we have the chase scene:
Stepney hits back against Ferrari (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6901125.stm)
But lawyers are investigating whether Ferrari were involved in the high-speed car chases that dogged the Briton.
Insomniac
07-31-07, 10:55 AM
I missed all the news last week. McLaren guilty, but no punishment. They gave them the Bourdais start at Mont Tremblant non-penalty. Pretty unbelievable (well, not really).
I think Ferrari and Flavio are right on this one. The WMSC just said it's OK to have documents as long as they can't prove you actually used it.
Ferrari should just threaten to withdraw from F1 and bring their $400M to ChampCar. :)
I'm amazed it took some of you F-1 crazies so long to comment on this. I thought it was HUGE...but maybe just F-1 business as usual? I guess Bernie himself suggested Ferrari not appeal but Max Mosley has requested the FIA hear an appeal anyway. I thought it was a slam dunk all the way and Ferrari still does. It ain't over yet. I may be wrong but the dismissal was based on lack of proof McLaren actually used the information that had been illegally obtained? Incredible. So, rob that bank but just don't get caught spending the money?:confused: Imagine if a black F-1 rookie is somehow denied a world championship through "politics" even if justified. I shudder to think.
extramundane
08-01-07, 09:30 AM
Mosley no likee (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6924697.stm):
Formula One's ruling body the FIA has reopened the Ferrari spying controversy by sending the verdict not to punish McLaren to its court of appeal.
FIA president Max Mosley said the move was because of "the importance of public confidence in the outcome".
'Cuz if anyone understands the "importance of public confidence" in the FIA it's Max. :gomer:
jonovision_man
08-01-07, 01:01 PM
I'm amazed it took some of you F-1 crazies so long to comment on this. I thought it was HUGE...but maybe just F-1 business as usual?
It is huge. And it is F1 business as usual. :)
Except for the tampering bit. But stealing design secrets is a time-honoured tradition.
jono
Insomniac
08-01-07, 02:38 PM
It is huge. And it is F1 business as usual. :)
Except for the tampering bit. But stealing design secrets is a time-honoured tradition.
jono
I don't think it has ever been to the level where your competitor could build your entire car.
stroker
08-01-07, 06:23 PM
Unless they can prove Coughlin was obtaining Ferrari information with any sort of awareness of McLaren there's no way they'll sanction McLaren/Mercedes for criminal actions of an employee. There's far too much money at stake. Why they went to Honda is beyond me, considering Toyota's questionable history of cheating.
jonovision_man
08-01-07, 06:32 PM
I don't think it has ever been to the level where your competitor could build your entire car.
At least not that's been revealed.
All these engineers floating between teams, I'm sure they take stuff with them when they move around, and not just in their brains. My laptop has stuff from every employer I've worked for on it, not with any intent to ever use it but because I'm too lazy to erase it. :)
Recall the Toyota-Ferrari case last year?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/30/ferrari_espionage_conviction/
Sensitive data stolen from Ferrari - including engineering documents, test data and other undisclosed documents – was allegedly used to develop the 2002 and 2003 edition of Toyota’s car
Not quite as dramatic as Toyota still sucked after. :p But similar concept.
jono
Insomniac
08-01-07, 06:54 PM
At least not that's been revealed.
But this has been revealed and the WMSC decided it was no big deal. Which just seems insane.
Methanolandbrats
08-01-07, 06:55 PM
The Ferrari team should toilet paper and egg Ron's Palace...........his head would explode. :thumbup:
jonovision_man
08-01-07, 08:18 PM
But this has been revealed and the WMSC decided it was no big deal. Which just seems insane.
I don't disagree. :)
jono
Ron should have waited a year, then he could have bought a whole Ferrari chassis at customer car prices. ;)
stroker
08-03-07, 09:02 AM
The Ferrari team should toilet paper and egg Ron's Palace...........his head would explode. :thumbup:
Coffee spew.
Thanks, M&B
:D
The McLaren tack now is IDing Ferrari for running illegal "flexi-floors" this season and they can prove it with the STOLEN papers? See, they were just playing defense!:rofl: (But Ferrari has stopped their rant!:shakehead ) So, what the hell is a movable floor? One could actually SEE the flexi-wings, so they had to find a place to flex that the ultra slow mo cameras couldn't see? I wonder if that's more expensive than flaring fenders in NASCAB?:D
Accipiter
08-03-07, 12:01 PM
You spoke a bit too soon about Ferrari stopping their rant:
"Contrary to the statement put forward by Vodafone McLaren Mercedes, Ferrari never illegally gained any advantage.
"The two F2007 cars used in the Australian Grand Prix were deemed by the Stewards to be in conformity with the technical regulations, before, during and at the end of the event. If there had been any illegalities, they would have been disqualified."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61295
Stupid of Ferrari to play into McLaren's attempt to re-frame the dabate.
Here's a Steve Matchett article on movable floors, or has he calls it, the "tea tray":
http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/36637/
Many thanks. Still confused, just not as much as before!:) Great article!
Alonso linked to scandal now... (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40534)
The saga continues.
Anybody else here cynical enough to think that Bernie is just upping the soap opera content of F1 and the WDC in preparation for the To¥ota onslaught in NASCAR next year?
Methanolandbrats
09-07-07, 11:37 AM
Anybody else here cynical enough to think that Bernie is just upping the soap opera content of F1 and the WDC in preparation for the To¥ota onslaught in NASCAR next year? No, I don't think there's much crossover between Cab and F1 crowds. Not many people enjoy hush puppies with a $200 bottle of wine. :)
TrueBrit
09-07-07, 12:19 PM
Hmmm...if the drivers knew about/had access to the info then Uncle Ron is in some pretty deep doo-doo....His whole 'plausible deniability' goes right out the window on that one....
Methanolandbrats
09-07-07, 12:35 PM
Hmmm...if the drivers knew about/had access to the info then Uncle Ron is in some pretty deep doo-doo....His whole 'plausible deniability' goes right out the window on that one.... The cleaning bill for his castle must be astronomical.............will he be able to afford it after the fines and exclusion :cry:
Hmmm...if the drivers knew about/had access to the info then Uncle Ron is in some pretty deep doo-doo....His whole 'plausible deniability' goes right out the window on that one....
I wonder if a disgruntled Alonso was the source of the email leak....:laugh:
Not many people enjoy hush puppies with a $200 bottle of wine. :)
GUILTY!
But ITV-F1.com understands that it could be linked to an email conversation between Alonso and McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa that contained set-up information on Ferrari's F2007 that pre-dates the dossier incident that sparked the scandal.
The "incident" refers to the copy shop employee calling the cops, right?
Maybe they were just talking about paint colors? [/Ron Dennis]
Insomniac
09-07-07, 02:30 PM
Hmmm...if the drivers knew about/had access to the info then Uncle Ron is in some pretty deep doo-doo....His whole 'plausible deniability' goes right out the window on that one....
It all went out the window when he said no one in McLaren besides Coughlan had seen it and then said they used the information to point out a possible rules violation by Ferrari in Australia.
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