View Full Version : Ford Sells Aston, Jag Next?
Wow. Ford auctions off Aston Martin to a US-Mid East consortium for 848 million $$, headed by Prodrive's David Richards and including (maybe) ol' Sheikh Maktoum Hasher Maktoum al-Maktoum etc. of A1GP fame. Guess Ford (had?) to keep a 77mil. stake in the deal
Very interesting. Aston was actually profitable now Ford needs a buyer for Jaguar which lost 700 mil. last year, probably 550 mil this year and 300 mil next year. Good luck. Industry news.
Very interesting. Aston was actually profitable now Ford needs a buyer for Jaguar which lost 700 mil. last year, probably 550 mil this year and 300 mil next year. Good luck. Industry news.
Ford would hate to give up Jaguar. It would leave them without any premium brand outside the U.S. (although I guess it's argueable whether Lincoln is still a premium brand in the U.S.).
First thing they should do is just DUMP the Mercury brand and if they must keep Lincoln simply include it in the Ford network and push it as their luxury model. Keeping Lincoln/Mercury makes no sense for a co. losing 12.5 billion $. I bet they lose more than Jaguar does.
First thing they should do is just DUMP the Mercury brand and if they must keep Lincoln simply include it in the Ford network and push it as their luxury model. Keeping Lincoln/Mercury makes no sense for a co. losing 12.5 billion $. I bet they lose more than Jaguar does.
I don't see the sense in keeping Lincoln and Mercury around when they're selling just selling dressed up Fords. That's been the case with Mercury for a long time and the old timers liked it that way, but Lincoln used to have a fairly distinct lineup.
Seems to me that they could cut the Lincoln Mercury Dealer network at least in half. Not sure how much savings that would provide but I don't know if Ford can afford to lose the old geaser sales they'd lose by axing the brand completely.
I don't see the sense in keeping Lincoln and Mercury around when they're selling just selling dressed up Fords. That's been the case with Mercury for a long time and the old timers liked it that way, but Lincoln used to have a fairly distinct lineup.
Seems to me that they could cut the Lincoln Mercury Dealer network at least in half. Not sure how much savings that would provide but I don't know if Ford can afford to lose the old geaser sales they'd lose by axing the brand completely.
GM reinvented Caddy while Ford screwed the pooch with Lincoln. About the only car in the Lincoln lineup even remotely considered as different or premium from the Ford lineup is the LS....and that's how many years old now? :shakehead Meanwhile Mustang sales as sagging, so yet another line that was showing promise starts to fall off. :(
-Kevin
Meanwhile Mustang sales as sagging, so yet another line that was showing promise starts to fall off. :(
-Kevin
but then what ever will HS girls and divorcees drive?! :eek:
About the only car in the Lincoln lineup even remotely considered as different or premium from the Ford lineup is the LS....and that's how many years old now?Old enough that it's no longer offered. The replacement is the MKZ which is a tarted up Fusion.
Moving to community since this really doesn't have much racing content.
Old enough that it's no longer offered. The replacement is the MKZ which is a tarted up Fusion.
Yup. Didn't realize that it was discontinued after the '07 model year. Too bad, it was a decent car.
-Kevin
coolhand
03-13-07, 03:08 AM
I think the whole Ford should go away, start over. Other industries roll over and new leaders pop up.
Andrew Longman
03-13-07, 09:41 AM
I don't see the sense in keeping Lincoln and Mercury around when they're selling just selling dressed up Fords. That's been the case with Mercury for a long time and the old timers liked it that way, but Lincoln used to have a fairly distinct lineup.
Seems to me that they could cut the Lincoln Mercury Dealer network at least in half. Not sure how much savings that would provide but I don't know if Ford can afford to lose the old geaser sales they'd lose by axing the brand completely.
The problem with even Jags is that while they greatly improved Jag quality and productivity they did it by making Jags seem too much like a dressed up Taurus.
And yes Ford could stand to close at least half their dealers, just like GM and DC.
Despite the longevity of the Mercury and Lincoln nameplates, having a luxury image has never been part of the Ford brand. Goes back to Henry himself and his simplistic worldview. Ford buyers traditionally looked for that as well, at least in NA. That may all be changing in today's world but I think it may be arguable whether they need a luxury division (as opposed to luxury versions of existing models).
Exactly. Many "luxury" cars today just have more leather and a softer ride and the mfgr. tries to con the buyer into thinking it's actually a different car. GM is looking to China for salvation, what is Ford doing? More conning, or will they actually reinvent themselves? (1/2 size sounds just about right!)
oddlycalm
03-13-07, 01:48 PM
Exactly. Many "luxury" cars today just have more leather and a softer ride and the mfgr. tries to con the buyer into thinking it's actually a different car. You're right, but every major auto company uses "platforms" to field their various models, generally along the lines of big, medium and small with some model proliferation within each platform. The problems come when the basic platform stinks or when the level of upgrade is simply badging and interior appointment as you indicated.
Ford has actually had considerable success doing this at time like when they brought out the Lincoln Continental on a stretched version of the the original Taurus platform. They started with a solid platform and upgraded it from the ground up into a really nice car. The Jaguar S is another example of taking a good platform turned it into an even better car. GM on the other hand has routinely taken a wretched chassis and stuck a luxury badge on them thereby devaluing their "premium" brands. The Cadaverlac Cimerron comes to mind...:gomer:
IIRC, wasn't Jaguar was losing big money when Ford bought it? I don't recall ever hearing that they managed to turn a single year of profit with it. :( When overall profits are high that may pass muster, but not when losses are in the $11 billion range.
oc
Andrew Longman
03-13-07, 01:58 PM
IIRC, wasn't Jaguar was losing big money when Ford bought it? I don't recall ever hearing that they managed to turn a single year of profit with it. :( When overall profits are high that may pass muster, but not when losses are in the $11 billion range.
oc
Yes. And their quality was crap. Its actually a testament to the power of the Jag brand that people would spend that kind of money for a car that rattled and didn't like to start in the rain.
Ford brought modern supply chain management, economy of scale, cheaper suppliers and up to date quality management to Jaguar. And they put a lot into marketing the nameplate, especially in NA. The result was a much improved and profitable car, but it also somewhat damaged the brand. It lost much of its specialness and too few we willing to pay that much for what they saw a Taurus with gadgets.
Oh yes:
The Cadaverlac Cimerron comes to mind...:gomer:
ROTFLMAO
The problem with even Jags is that while they greatly improved Jag quality and productivity they did it by making Jags seem too much like a dressed up Taurus.
I think the S-Type did pretty well for a while. The problem there was the same as a lot of Ford brands, the design got stale. Who wants to buy a brand new 7 year old car?
The X-Type was a dressed up Mondeo that was supposed to become Jag's 3 series fighter. It never really had the chops to play in that league. At the price they want the values just not there. It's a pity because it's a nice looking car.
Andrew Longman
03-13-07, 04:03 PM
Well, the XJR went pretty much unchanged styling wise from 1975-96.
The XKEs went unchanged for years and looked a lot like the Ds
The XK8 look like it ought to be a Jaguar, but is overpriced.
The S type was more affordable but looked far too Ford-like. I think it might have done well initially as an alternative for the traditional Ford buyer, but ultimately damaged the brand and, yes, after seven years lost all novelty among the wider car-buying public.
oddlycalm
03-13-07, 05:07 PM
The XK8 look like it ought to be a Jaguar, but is overpriced.
The S type was more affordable but looked far too Ford-like. I think it might have done well initially as an alternative for the traditional Ford buyer Agreed on both points. The S would have sold like gangbusters at the Ford dealers but at the Jag dealers they were the red haired step child.
I looked seriously at the XK8 convertible and drove a couple of them extensively both here and in Arizona, then bought an M3 convertible that was simply a better car for less money. After I spent $10K putting all the good bits on the M3 I had still spent less that the Jag but had a car that could wipe the floor with it. BMW also has a much superior convertible top system.
The XK8 is a pretty car, but it's mildly tuned V8 (300hp) with an automatic and a cushy suspension doesn't add up to a serious drivers car. Sporty enough for the corporate guy in Scottsdale with the golf clubs and tanned bottle blonde with implants but not if you want to do any serious driving. The upgrade to the XKR makes it even more expensive and you still don't end up with a drivers car.
oc
coolhand
03-13-07, 08:13 PM
Lexus is the largest luxury car brand in the US now. Guess what? They are for the most part dressed up Toyotas.
The RX and ES are Camary Chasis LX is a dressed up Landcruiser.....
Lexus is the largest luxury car brand in the US now. Guess what? They are for the most part dressed up Toyotas.
The RX and ES are Camary Chasis LX is a dressed up Landcruiser.....
Everyone accepts that platform engineering is a fact of life. The problem is models that offer little or nothing to differentiate them from a sister brand. Toyota has had some of that in some of their Lexus models, but for the most part Lexus has become accepted as a Luxury brand by offering quality and value over their rivals.
Anyway, this is the concept for what's supposed to replace the S-Type, so if they can carry it through I don't think anyone will be mistaking it for a Taurus.
http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/jaguar/112_0702_01z+jaguar_cxf_concept_car+left_front_vie w.jpg
Sean O'Gorman
03-13-07, 10:49 PM
The return of the Dodge Intrepid?
Sean Malone
03-13-07, 10:59 PM
The return of the Dodge Intrepid?
Good eye Sean.
My first thought when I glanced at the rear was the new Charger. The front looks like the 300C.
coolhand
03-13-07, 11:56 PM
Everyone accepts that platform engineering is a fact of life. The problem is models that offer little or nothing to differentiate them from a sister brand. Toyota has had some of that in some of their Lexus models, but for the most part Lexus has become accepted as a Luxury brand by offering quality and value over their rivals.
All the plastic keys switches and buttons are the same across Toyota and Lexus. If you look closely at the glass parts it has Toyota Stamped on them. This is just the interior parts. I know there are shared chassis. I have not looked into the engines and suspension but considering all else I think there is a lot of crossover there. Even a Salesman at Lexus will tell you the ES is a "Camery on Steroids". You can get NAV systems and leather interiors on a Camery. Toyota and Lexus are similar to Ford/Lincoln/Jag in that regard.
Toyota and Lexus dealers are right next to each other in a lot of places and share service and sale personell. The Japanese have made it work with crossing the brands. All Lexus's in Japan are badged as Toyotas.
Toyota and Lexus dealers are right next to each other in a lot of places and share service and sale personell. The Japanese have made it work with crossing the brands. All Lexus's in Japan are badged as Toyotas.
I'm not sure how any of that contradicts what I've said. There are four other Lexus models that are substatually different then anything in US Toyota showrooms. Lincoln and Mercury have nothing in their showrooms that aren't transparently badge engineered Fords. Lincoln sells TWO cars.
Andrew Longman
03-14-07, 11:22 AM
I'm not sure how any of that contradicts what I've said. There are four other Lexus models that are substatually different then anything in US Toyota showrooms. Lincoln and Mercury have nothing in their showrooms that aren't transparently badge engineered Fords. Lincoln sells TWO cars.
Acura TLs are made on the same line in Marysville as Accords, but to your point no one will confuse the look, ride, or performance of a TL with an Accord. But nearly as important, Honda is starting with a highly developed, high quality, well thought out Accord design while GM and Ford platforms are not so much.
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