View Full Version : Kevin speaks
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?series=5&id=2784983)
"I promise I will never go and speak to penguins for two months in winter ever again," explained adventurous series co-principal Kevin Kalkhoven, who spent much of the offseason in Antarctica. "I disappeared for a couple of months and it wasn't necessarily the smartest thing to do without letting everyone know what I was doing. It caused a whole bunch of speculation."
Much more at the link.
jonovision_man
03-02-07, 08:51 AM
Significant sponsorships have come in and the series will continue to develop. I think you'll find there are a number of fully-funded teams and it's going to be one hell of a season.
One major advance from Kalkhoven's perspective is that he said Champ Car is no longer subsidizing any of its teams, a practice introduced by former series CEO Chris Pook in 2003.
"There is absolutely no financial support being offered to any of the teams this year," Kalkhoven said. "The teams are standing or falling on their own success and I'm delighted to say that you will find they are standing on their success.
Doesn't there seem to be a contradiction here... :confused: "A number of" implies not all... but then he says there's no support?
I'll believe it when 18 fully-funded and fully-sponsored cars roll out on the grid in Vegas...
jono
Ed_Severson
03-02-07, 09:22 AM
Doesn't there seem to be a contradiction here... :confused: "A number of" implies not all... but then he says there's no support?
I'll believe it when 18 fully-funded and fully-sponsored cars roll out on the grid in Vegas...
jono
I think what he's getting at is that some of these guys are running their teams on sponsor dollars, some are running on their own dollars, and some are running on a combination of the two, but none of them are running on Champ Car dollars. When he says "a number of fully-funded teams" he means that a few guys are still running out of pocket, but we're no longer assisting them.
pferrf1
03-02-07, 09:39 AM
Perhaps he means a number o 'fully-funded' meaning fully sponsored (no ride-buyers needed) teams, with the rest being partially funded (need ride-buyers) teams.
jonovision_man
03-02-07, 09:41 AM
Could be.
If that situation holds for the Vegas grid, I'll be a little more optimistic about the series future... and the effect of the DP01.
jono
We'll see what the grid looks like in Vegas but this might demonstrate that no news doesn't have to mean bad news.
Andrew Longman
03-02-07, 10:57 AM
Perhaps he means a number o 'fully-funded' meaning fully sponsored (no ride-buyers needed) teams, with the rest being partially funded (need ride-buyers) teams.
That's how I read it too.
The funding comments are also supported by the rumors and statements about some teams only running one car and Conquest almost closing shop.
Good.
And sponsorship begets sponsorship. Companies feel that if it is good enough for company X then its good enough for them. And it enables teams/CC to point to actual marketing results for sponsors. Conversely, companies figure that if other companies don't see the value in sponsorship, then they won't either. I can't prove it but I always felt even one unsponsored car hurt all sponsorship.
devilmaster
03-02-07, 11:16 AM
No financial support to teams is nice I guess, he can say it so it shows the series and teams are on stronger footing.
But, larger race purses are a form of financial support and if teams can see that they can recoup their yearly investment, I'm sure you'd see more teams jumping into the series - then Kevin can pound his chest and say CC is where its at.
But larger purses give an incentive to move up the grid. So, the better you finish, the more money your team makes and the team can strive for bonuses. Some teams in the past were getting money to get on the grid and had minimal incentive to push to the front.
devilmaster
03-02-07, 11:36 AM
But larger purses give an incentive to move up the grid. So, the better you finish, the more money your team makes and the team can strive for bonuses. Some teams in the past were getting money to get on the grid and had minimal incentive to push to the front.
True, but I believe what CC should have is purses that aren't too different from 1st to last. One could argue that the teams who need help the most aren't going to sniff the front anytime soon. So increase the purses, but increase them equally across the board.
Andrew Longman
03-02-07, 11:44 AM
Purse money needs to ensure that at minimum the last place car sees a point in rolling the car out of the garage. If they can pay more than that up and down the grid, all the better.
I also see reason to pay more for moving up the grid. It makes sense and the fans like to know what was won.
But the real incentive for moving up the grid is sponsorship and greater sponsorship dollars. Sponsors want to be seen and want to be seen with winners.
The gomers are going to spin this about KK's happy feet. :laugh:
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?series=5&id=2784983)
Much more at the link.Thanks for the link, ya damn cheerleader! :laugh:
:thumbup:
Insomniac
03-02-07, 12:36 PM
But, larger race purses are a form of financial support and if teams can see that they can recoup their yearly investment, I'm sure you'd see more teams jumping into the series - then Kevin can pound his chest and say CC is where its at.
I think they need to get race sponsors who will pay the purse.
devilmaster
03-02-07, 12:58 PM
I think they need to get race sponsors who will pay the purse.
I agree, but its a cart before the horse argument.
Before you get the race sponsor to pay the money, you need to show the race sponsor its worth his money and time to promote.
The discussion about crappy promoters aside (IMG and Centrix boy, yes, i'm looking at you) - A race sponsor would probably be more willing to pony up for a race series that looks to be on the rise with high car counts and good buzz.
Put some money into purses, make it more inviting to run a Champcar. Get more teams, and perhaps more teams with pay drivers instead of ride-buyers. Show the series continues to grow. Go to race tracks where there is an actual commitment to put a good race on (back to a good promoter) then look for those race sponsors who will allow the PTB to not spend their money.
Its obvious now that the new cost controls with the new car is not enough - or else you'd see more teams - instead of people like Gelles who announced they will and then not make the call.
Financial assistance should not be bad, evil words. Any race team wants to make money if they can. If you make it inviting enough to do so, (not a guarantee they'll make money but with a good sponsor and some good finishes) then teams will run in CC.
Then with more teams and cars, there is more racing, perhaps good racing, and then you can go to the sponsors and say 'look at how we've grown, we're moving up, and it might be worth your company's while to grow with us.'
Insomniac
03-02-07, 04:07 PM
I agree, but its a cart before the horse argument.
Before you get the race sponsor to pay the money, you need to show the race sponsor its worth his money and time to promote.
I don't think writing checks is working. They've been doing it for years and Pook blew through $100M and who knows how many millions KK and GF have spent. Nothing is changing. You could argue the check writing made people lazy in finding money. Now, if you really want to be there, I guess you need real money from somewhere. If this truly is the case, we can see how viable CC is on it's own feet and maybe people will work harder to get ROI for sponsors.
"I promise I will never go and speak to penguins for two months in winter ever again," explained adventurous series co-principal Kevin Kalkhoven, who spent much of the offseason in Antarctica. "I disappeared for a couple of months, and it wasn't necessarily the smartest thing to do without letting everyone know what I was doing. It caused a whole bunch of speculation."
Antarctica?
WTF is there in Antarctica to do for 2 months?
Oh no, oh dear God no....
http://www.theworldisyourocean.net/images/antarctica_pics/PICT20.JPG
I guess if I squint my eyes just right and look beyond the penguins I can imagine an 11 turn road course there. Will they allow tire warmers for this one? Restarts might be a real beaatch.
extramundane
03-03-07, 05:16 PM
I guess if I squint my eyes just right and look beyond the penguins I can imagine an 11 turn road course there. Will they allow tire warmers for this one? Restarts might be a real beaatch.
Kalkhoven's got an in with the world's premier whale blubber importer. Trouble is, Long Beach and Houston will have to be canceled to fit this race in, but the increase in viewership amongst leopard seals will be worth it. :thumbup:
RHR_Fan
03-03-07, 08:13 PM
Antarctica?
WTF is there in Antarctica to do for 2 months?
Oh no, oh dear God no....
That was my question: why was he in Antarctica? I guess if you have the money and time why not go...
~Nicole
That was my question: why was he in Antarctica? I guess if you have the money and time why not go...
~Nicole
I think we've been gomered.
He even said there might be 17 cars at Vegas.:(
He even said there might be 17 cars at Vegas.:(WOULD IT KILL YA TO PUT IN A LINK?!?
It's over at ar1
Spicoli
03-05-07, 02:37 PM
WOULD IT KILL YA TO PUT IN A LINK?!?
It's over at ar1
linky:
http://www.smackforum.net/showpost.php?p=6568&postcount=55
totally underwhelmed. sounds like KK is done spendin.
devilmaster
03-05-07, 02:41 PM
linky:
http://www.smackforum.net/showpost.php?p=6568&postcount=55
totally underwhelmed. sounds like KK is done spendin.
Thx for the link :thumbup:
1) official test sessions in May
2) all the teams except one will have sponsorship for 2007
3) deliberately held back announcements until Spring Training
4) most of the drivers are paid to drive
Here's hoping. :thumbup:
I wonder if KK's decision to cut the welfare is what made Gelles reconsider their Champ Car team. They announce at San Jose in July, then KK sends around his memo at Montreal in August, then they bail.
Racing Truth
03-05-07, 03:12 PM
linky:
http://www.smackforum.net/showpost.php?p=6568&postcount=55
totally underwhelmed. sounds like KK is done spendin.
Agreed. "Noted Tony-lover":tony: Robin Miller doesn't buy it either, sadly. Guess we'll know soon.
GOFAST1
03-05-07, 05:00 PM
3 Years and with all new talent, new tracks, new cars(Atlantics andChampcar) new tv and new direction and you don't see a progress shame on you. Every year same old bs. Champcar is here to stay and produce best racing in the world as allways did. Go Champcar.
3 Years and with all new talent, new tracks, new cars(Atlantics andChampcar) new tv and new direction and you don't see a progress shame on you. Every year same old bs. Champcar is here to stay and produce best racing in the world as allways did. Go Champcar.
I agree. In my case it's not Koolaid, it's Sam Adams.
George
We should have a better idea what's going on by the end of the week.
I remain optimistic. :p
http://www.imagecrown.com/images/cart3903/empgroup12.jpg
Obviously Kevin was on holiday trying to drum up new fan support.
Fans that don't have anymore demands or expectations than some mackeral and a seating section free of Leopard Seals.
Spicoli
03-05-07, 08:53 PM
http://www.imagecrown.com/images/cart3903/empgroup12.jpg
Obviously Kevin was on holiday trying to drum up new fan support.
Fans that don't have anymore demands or expectations than some mackeral and a seating section free of Leopard Seals.
= CCF. :laugh:
You dont cut off the subsities the first year of the new car. The second, yes, but not the first.
Not many (read one two car team) took KK up on his "new team" scenario.
The cost of running a new car will be the highest the first year. Design changes, crashes, expensive second and third generation parts etc.
Glad to see they are still stumbling along
GOFAST1
03-06-07, 02:12 PM
Lay off of the Koolaid.
Best you can muster for your 3rd post irl fan?
Best you can muster for your 3rd post irl fan?
Post count is an indicator of what? Your overstatements indicate major Koolaid chugging.
Racing Truth
03-06-07, 09:03 PM
3 Years and with all new talent, new tracks, new cars(Atlantics andChampcar) new tv and new direction and you don't see a progress shame on you. Every year same old bs. Champcar is here to stay and produce best racing in the world as allways did. Go Champcar.
:saywhat: And what direction is that, praytell? The South Pole (you know, where Kev was hangin' out)? And how the h=ll do you know the full driver lineup? We have EIGHT confirmed now.
But here's a place you may be more comfortable at. (http://www.champcarfanatics.com):gomer:
GOFAST1
03-06-07, 09:06 PM
Post count is an indicator of what? Your overstatements indicate major Koolaid chugging.
I only stated the facts.Your post count and your statement is an indicator that you are irl fan.
Post count is an indicator of what? Your overstatements indicate major Koolaid chugging.
He listed some reasons to be optimistic. If you think he's overstating things it's fair to say so but please address the post instead of the poster.
GOFAST1
03-06-07, 09:15 PM
:saywhat: And what direction is that, praytell? The South Pole (you know, where Kev was hangin' out)? And how the h=ll do you know the full driver lineup? We have EIGHT confirmed now.
But here's a place you may be more comfortable at. (http://www.champcarfanatics.com):gomer:
Glad to see that you care. See you at the races. Go Champcar! :)
Racing Truth
03-06-07, 09:18 PM
I only stated the facts.Your post count and your statement is an indicator that you are irl fan.
No, you threw in facts, 2 of which MIGHT be good, and just assumed all of the others are signs of imminent glory. I make no such assumption, and I have NO reason to do so.
Question: Why do YOU, personally, think CC is on solid ground? Beyond new cars, what evidence have you?
produce best racing in the world as allways did.
Major overstatement and just plain BS. CC has had many great race, but there have been a lot of dogs. (I liked Phillips article referring to last year's LB as sponsored by a cure for insomnia.) This is as much Koolaid inspired as the IRL's faithfull's "best racing on the planet" BS.
Facts my butt, it's just opinion.
GOFAST1
03-06-07, 09:41 PM
Question: Why do YOU, personally, think CC is on solid ground? Beyond new cars, what evidence have you?
I don't know what solid ground means to everyone but going back 3-4 years I can see a progress as every new year comes oround. I see commitment from the owners to build formula that works. Formula where fans show up. They care to make racing better. They allways traying something new to make it work. They spend enough money to insure that series is independent of others and that showed me they love Champcar as much as the fans love it. Is it perfect? No, but with what they started and now you can see it's better and next year will be better yet. I love champcar races and that type of racing and for me is the best. Optimist and big fan? YES ,YES,YES! Is that so bad to be on Champcar forums?
every year it's the same hating and the same sunshine pumping. every year CC ends up in the same place. if things improve this year, then great, but other than a new car this offseason is no different from the previous 4 or so. another random assortment of owners & drivers, another random assortment of venues another random assortment of TV partners, always varying greatly from the previous year. that's called stagnation, not development, not growth.
this series has had all the stability of the love child of michael jackson and brittany spears
Sean O'Gorman
03-07-07, 12:09 PM
Ank nails it.
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 12:22 PM
Yep. Well said Ank.
CC continues struggling to keep their head above water. I would really like to see a title sponsor and 24 (ok, 22) car grids before I stop my yearly dealth watch. Maybe Spring Training announcments will shed some light on some growth/stability.
Oh, and I'm still a strong believer that it's perfectly acceptable to be a 'hopeful' Champ Car fan on a Champ Car specific forum. :thumbup:
this series has had all the stability of the love child of michael jackson and brittany spears
I have to disagree. It's a niche sport. It'll be around for a long time, but it'll never have huge TV ratings or be "mainstream:" just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc. Some years will be better than others. People will come and go. Some will make money. Some will lose it. But there is enough passion from the fans, and enough cash to keep everything going: just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc.
Seems to me, that the only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days or people with the mentality of 12 year olds who have an axe to grind.
Insomniac
03-07-07, 01:28 PM
I have to disagree. It's a niche sport. It'll be around for a long time, but it'll never have huge TV ratings or be "mainstream:" just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc. Some years will be better than others. People will come and go. Some will make money. Some will lose it. But there is enough passion from the fans, and enough cash to keep everything going: just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc.
Seems to me, that the only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days or people with the mentality of 12 year olds who have an axe to grind.
Enough cash? I seriously doubt they'll keep running the series with their own money forever. There needs to be some growth so teams can run off other people's money. Until that happens, they'll be treading water, and some day, their arms will get tired and they'll drown.
Sean O'Gorman
03-07-07, 01:32 PM
I have to disagree. It's a niche sport.
Is it???? What exactly is the niche?
I have to disagree. It's a niche sport. It'll be around for a long time, but it'll never have huge TV ratings or be "mainstream:" just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc. Some years will be better than others. People will come and go. Some will make money. Some will lose it. But there is enough passion from the fans, and enough cash to keep everything going: just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc.
Seems to me, that the only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days or people with the mentality of 12 year olds who have an axe to grind.
typical excuses of the CCFantasies variety.
this is the sport that spawned the Indy ****ing 500 and you're comparing it to the CFL and WWF? this is the sport that used to bring in regular 4 ratings with mobs of viewers from 5 continents and now celebrates going from a .1 to a .2 or .3 and that's "passion from enough fans?"
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 01:45 PM
I have to disagree. It's a niche sport. It'll be around for a long time, but it'll never have huge TV ratings or be "mainstream:" just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc. Some years will be better than others. People will come and go. Some will make money. Some will lose it. But there is enough passion from the fans, and enough cash to keep everything going: just like the CFL, hockey, wrestling, boxing etc.
Seems to me, that the only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days or people with the mentality of 12 year olds who have an axe to grind.
Wrestling? What kind of wresting are you talking about? Pro? Olympic? High school? Aside from the periodic strikes, the fans and media that watch/cover hockey know that it is going to be there next year and the year after that etc. Same with boxing. The Stanley Cup and heavy weight bouts draw national attention. What outside of the Indy 500 does for open wheel racing? People wearing hockey jersey's are a coming sight during the season. How many Champ Car fans do you come across in 'real life'?
But, with that said, how many of the sports that you mention compose their mission statement around remaining a 'niche' sport? Do you not think the NHL is doing everything they can to grow their fan base? What about NASCAR? The day they raced on the beach in Daytona they weren't the #4 sport entity in the country like they are now. I guess they didn't want to be a niche sport. You see us 'old' guys remember things, like when the Indy 500 meant something, when NASCAR was a bunch of hicks in the deep South, when Champ Car had real sponsors, multiple engines manufacture involvement, 28 car grids.
You also seem pretty sure that Forsyth and Kalkovin will continue to back the series with their deep pockets. Keep dreaming. There will come a point where the teams who can't get the monies for a season will look for a hand out. It won't be there and presto, 16 car grid. Oh, wait, that's where we are now.
Seems to me that you are the one who is out of touch with the realties of the situation. But keep the faith. I have been since Tony’s tantrum.
Seems to me, that the only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days or people with the mentality of 12 year olds who have an axe to grind.
GMAFB.
If this sport has lost me (& those like me) as a fan;
a guy who traveled thousands of miles to watch a race, spent tons of dollars to do Long Beach first-class every year, wrote articles for websites, attended test sessions religiously, sat in the rainy practice sessions, dragged 5 or 6 friends at a time to races, bought the hats & shirts, and lived for that first sound of 16,000 rpms and the smell of methanol mixed with a King Taco stand nearby....
then it's in deep ****.
The last CC race I attended, I looked around at the blank sidepods, white awnings over the trucks, and drivers paying to race & thought: why am I paying all this money to watch a bunch of rich guys club racing? This sport used to be about watching the some of the best race drivers & teams in the world, driving exotic racecars & pushing the technical limits. That doesn't exist now.
GOFAST1
03-07-07, 02:06 PM
GMAFB.
This sport used to be about watching the some of the best race drivers .
Hiro, Salazar, Greco ,Dobson ,Vitolo,Grof,Zampedri etc. I know how you feel.
extramundane
03-07-07, 02:11 PM
Enough cash? I seriously doubt they'll keep running the series with their own money forever. There needs to be some growth so teams can run off other people's money. Until that happens, they'll be treading water, and some day, their arms will get tired and they'll drown.
From the sounds of things "someday" may be just around the corner. And at this point, I saw screw it. Throw it out there and let's see if it floats. If the future means the continued revolving door of paying drivers, dumping US road courses for US street circuits that will themselves be dumped for Euro races because some stoned Dutchmen think Jos r0x0rz my s0x0rz, 2-month schedule gaps, burned bridges with the few corporate sponsors who still give the series the time of day, and series management that talks a big game on the internets but hasn't yet delivered in reality, then I'd rather the damn thing sinks now, before the idea of combining CC & Atlantic fields isn't just flamebait.
I hope I'm wrong and that enough stuff will be announced at Laguna to form a solid base on which to finally start building. But I'm not holding my breath.
Hiro, Salazar, Greco ,Dobson ,Vitolo,Grof,Zampedri etc. I know how you feel.
Thanks for making my point for me: backmarkers used to be just that. Now they are winning races in Champcar.
GOFAST1
03-07-07, 02:18 PM
Thanks for making my point for me: backmarkers used to be just that. Now they are winning races in Champcar.
OK then I will not see you at a races.
devilmaster
03-07-07, 02:20 PM
OK then I will not see you at a races.
I love how making valid points on some questionable issues with Champcar labels you an IRL fan or a person who doesn't go to races....
:rolleyes:
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 02:26 PM
Hiro, Salazar, Greco ,Dobson ,Vitolo,Grof,Zampedri etc. I know how you feel.
,,,master must,,,,,be pleased with,,,,you,,,:tony: :tony:
Question: What do the above drivers have to do with CC 2007?
GOFAST1
03-07-07, 02:26 PM
I love how making valid points on some questionable issues with Champcar labels you an IRL fan or a person who doesn't go to races....
:rolleyes:
I love negativity every year obout this time.
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 02:28 PM
OK then I will not see you at a races.
Ah, fan membership qualifications. How very CCF of you.
I'd have my plan set for my usual two races this year (used to be five) if I knew for sure they weren't going to be pulled from the schedule. I'm waiting until a few weeks before each race to make my decision. At least I know there will still be tickets/hotel/camp sites available.
Does that make this 20+ year fan of Champ Car less of a fan?
About a 6.5 on the meltdown scale.
We're getting better!;)
devilmaster
03-07-07, 02:37 PM
About a 6.5 on the meltdown scale.
We're getting better!;)
Nah. This was a 3 tops. Nothin much to see here. No claims of never watchin CC again, no pouty I'm leavin OC and never comin back, no 'you're a poo-poo head' crap....
Sean O'Gorman
03-07-07, 02:48 PM
I love how "niche" can be used to describe anything that the rest of the world perceives as boring these days...
The only possible niches that Champ Car fits these days are for rich guys who are too afraid to actually race cars themselves, and the CCF nerds that worship them. :gomer: :gomer:
GOFAST1
03-07-07, 02:48 PM
[QUOTE=Sean Malone;188029] .
I'd have my plan set for my usual two races this year (used to be five) if I knew for sure they weren't going to be pulled from the schedule. I'm waiting until a few weeks before each race to make my decision. At least I know there will still be tickets/hotel/camp sites available.
Great, see you there.
oddlycalm
03-07-07, 02:50 PM
AR1 has rumor of a new CCWS race to be held in Tierra Del Fuego organized by a syndicate of wealthy penguins...
http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/50353702/4397327
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 02:59 PM
AR1 has rumor of a new CCWS race to be held in Tierra Del Fuego organized by a syndicate of wealthy penguins...
http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/50353702/4397327
I'm going to hold off on booking my flight. I have a feeling they will need more time to promote and "move" the date.
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 03:28 PM
BTW: Both of f00boy's posts were spot on.:thumbup:
As FTG (the OC poster) would define it, this sport was not just a niche sport to the degree it is today. Mario, AJ, Unser (X2), Mears, and Rutherford were household names. Due to one race? Perhaps, but still a very significant "niche."
This sport used to be about watching the some of the best race drivers That doesn't exist now.
The only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days
I love how "niche" can be used to describe anything that the rest of the world perceives as boring these days...
The only possible niches that Champ Car fits these days are for rich guys who are too afraid to actually race cars themselves, and the CCF nerds that worship them. :gomer: :gomer:
I'd watch PT and Seabass race go karts. If that makes me a "CCF nerd" I take comfort in the fact that I have about 10,000 less posts than Spickly at that place.
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 03:45 PM
The only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days
You're denying Rich's assertion? Explain, IN DETAIL, why he's wrong.
You know Gordon in Dodgeball? The fat dude in the goggles who read Obscure Sports Quarterly in college for the chicks? Who knows all the ADAA rules by heart and carries around the rulesbook with him at all times?
This guy in the middle:
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0364725/DB-154.jpg
That's the CCFantasies contingent.
There used to not be a race within 800 miles of me, yet I was never too busy grinding my axe with my Play-Skool 6th grader's axe grinding kit to fly out to an event and flag down broadcasts of the rest of the season... Then you have the present.
devilmaster
03-07-07, 03:49 PM
BTW: Both of f00boy's posts were spot on.:thumbup:
His point is the same problem I have with many offseasons....
People announcing things they can't seem to deliver on.
Both KK and GF said repeatedly 20-22 cars maybe even 24. They announced Gelles as a confirmed back at the dp01 launch. The announced dates that never seem to come. There are probably other examples that are not coming to mind.
One broken announcement is fine, it happens. 2 - maybe just a unique set of coincidences. 3 plus - you start to become labeled as someone who can't deliver. And it looks bush. I want KK and GF to make this series stronger, but I can't help but question how they are doing when I expected the things they promised, and they don't deliver on them.
Make announcements when they are set in stone and going to happen. We make and made fun of the IRL for announcing tons of cars for indy when they don't even have a bubble day anymore. Now CC is doing the exact same thing and when people question that, they get labeled a non-fan or an IRL fan. Jeeesus. :rolleyes:
As always, I'll watch the series because that's what i've done as far back as I can remember. If CC folds in the next 10 minutes, i'll still go grocery shopping. It isn't the end of the world.
Horse racing is another niche sport that survives just fine. And would continue to surive if some idiot ruined the Kentucky Derby.
O'Gorman would say that because some horse owners lose money, that makes it a "club" sport, but horse racing fans don't give a **** about O'Gorman's opinion either.
devilmaster
03-07-07, 03:54 PM
Good threads and good debates really lose all meaning and die on the vine when everyone gets bogged down in minutiae.
You're denying Rich's assertion? Explain, IN DETAIL, why he's wrong.
Let's see if I can explain this slowly.
Originally Posted by RichK
This sport used to be about watching the some of the best race drivers That doesn't exist now.
He's right. It doesn't exist now. If he doesn't like it, that makes him "an old fart who longs for the old days" but Champ Car doesn't need him to survive.
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 03:55 PM
Horse racing is another niche sport that survives just fine. And would continue to surive if some idiot ruined the Kentucky Derby.
O'Gorman would say that because some horse owners lose money, that makes it a "club" sport, but horse racing fans don't give a **** about O'Gorman's opinion either.
Yes, but the "Sport of Kings," outside of, oh 6-7 races, is nowhere near what it was. Unless you're going to tell me horse racing was "always a niche sport.":rolleyes:
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 03:57 PM
Let's see if I can explain this slowly.
Originally Posted by RichK
This sport used to be about watching the some of the best race drivers That doesn't exist now.
He's right. It doesn't exist now. If he doesn't like it, that makes him "an old fart who longs for the old days" but Champ Car doesn't need him to survive.
Understood, and that makes some sense. However, forgive some if we see a, well, entire sport melting down and get a tad bitter about it.
You also seem pretty sure that Forsyth and Kalkovin will continue to back the series with their deep pockets.
Nope, I just think there will always be some guys who'd rather spend a couple million on this than Viagra.
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2006/By800/20061020P_0115.jpg
Andrew Longman
03-07-07, 04:02 PM
BTW: Both of f00boy's posts were spot on.:thumbup:
As FTG (the OC poster) would define it, this sport was not just a niche sport to the degree it is today. Mario, AJ, Unser (X2), Mears, and Rutherford were household names. Due to one race? Perhaps, but still a very significant "niche."
True, but the no name that came in second or third in that race in any given year stayed a no name no matter how many other races he won on the USAC trail.
Outside of the genuine racing fan (who probably followed the drivers at their local track more than anything else), the general public didn't pay too much attention to racing except on Memorial Day and didn't know the drivers unless he was a past winner or died.
Today, in the US racing equals NASCAR and in large part it is because its been on TV 36 weeks a year for nearly 20 years. CART was headed that way but TG blew it up.
I don't know what my point is, perhaps someone can help me out, but regardless of what CART/Champcar/Indycar was, I can still be pretty impressed by a driver muscling a car at 185 through the T9/10 combo at Cleveland and can tell the difference between the really good like SB and PT and those that are just learning.
So long as the place is not a ghost town and things are looking better than the year before, CC troubles are not really a distraction. I'll just try to enjoy it as long as it lasts.
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 04:03 PM
The only people who can't accept the facts are old farts who long for the old days
Back to the mud slinging eh? Now I know why Defender gets so frustrated with the "youthful Champ Car enthusiasts".
One thing you should keep in mind is that we're all Champ Car fans. That's why were' here discussing Champ Car. I hate NASCAR but I'm not going to sit on a NASCAR board and try to convince die hard fans that NASCAR sucks.
Most here want to see Champ Car grow and become a stable entity in which the media talks about the product instead of low car counts, low sponsors, liquid schedule or even the series own survival. But, and this is a big but, we also understand that no matter how many group hugs, positive affirmation emails from internet spiritual leaders, or vague rumors of positives "right around the corner" are going to give us what we want for Champ Car. Me going to two races this year isn't either.
I used to be an overly aggressive IRL bashing, lemming smacking, gomer exterminator, but that was back when Champ Car was a much more "defendable" series. It's hard to defend empty promises. Seriously.
Champ Car doesn't even have a title sponsor! Hell, freakin dirt bike racing has title sponsors!!!!!!!
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 04:06 PM
Nope, I just think there will always be some guys who'd rather spend a couple million on this than Viagra.
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2006/By800/20061020P_0115.jpg
Great. Query: What does that do for TV ratings and people actually following the series once the circus leaves town?
extramundane
03-07-07, 04:07 PM
Most here want to see Champ Car grow and become a stable entity in which the media talks about the product instead of low car counts, low sponsors, liquid schedule or even the series own survival. But, and this is a big but, we also understand that no matter how many group hugs, positive affirmation emails from internet spiritual leaders, or vague rumors of positives "right around the corner" are going to give us what we want for Champ Car. Me going to two races this year isn't either.
And there you have it. :thumbup:
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 04:08 PM
Nope, I just think there will always be some guys who'd rather spend a couple million on this than Viagra.
You'd figure they'd pony up and make a team or have their companies sponsor a car while they're waiting for the 'sale'.
BTW, I think it's kinda funny that I even know who the driver is in that picture. Talk about how low we've sunk. Yeah, we're still fans dude.
Hey Hey.....and whats wrong with dirt bike racing Mr name changer?
Sean O'Gorman
03-07-07, 04:09 PM
He's right. It doesn't exist now. If he doesn't like it, that makes him "an old fart who longs for the old days" but Champ Car doesn't need him to survive.
Maybe he isn't longing for the old days, but for at the very least, something new???
And you better damn well believe Champ Car needs him. They can't survive with a remaining fan base of a few thousand nerds.
Understood, and that makes some sense. However, forgive some if we see a, well, entire sport melting down and get a tad bitter about it.
That happened in 95. Say a couple FTGs and move on. I'm interested in the new car, whether PT has anything left, what Cirque is going to bring and what Honda's up to.
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 04:14 PM
That happened in 95. Say a couple FTGs and move on. I'm interested in the new car, whether PT has anything left, what Cirque is going to bring and what Honda's up to.
A spec car with no compitition, a naging driver who has to wreck cars to win, and vague rumors. Fun!:)
Great. Query: What does that do for TV ratings
Nothing. It's a niche sport. It'll never have NASCAR ratings. It doesn't need them to survive. Ratings will go up some years. Down others. The NHL doesn't get big TV ratings either. It's a niche sport too. The NHL survives. My friends and I enjoy the games. We don't care what the ratings are.
They can't survive with a remaining fan base of a few thousand nerds.
Why does "club" racing need more than a few thousand fans?
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 04:18 PM
That happened in 95. Say a couple FTGs and move on. I'm interested in the new car, whether PT has anything left, what Cirque is going to bring and what Honda's up to.
Other than the new car, I can't say that anything else strikes me as compelling, at all.
Besides, doesn't your attitude just say we should except anything? Seems like you'll excuse anything
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 04:19 PM
Why does "club" racing need more than a few thousand fans?
Why should I except "club racing?"
Sean O'Gorman
03-07-07, 04:20 PM
Why does "club" racing need more than a few thousand fans?
Becuase in the case of Champ Car its fcuking expensive???
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 04:21 PM
Becuase in the case of Champ Car its fcuking expensive???
Good point, even though the DP01 is indeed cheaper, that doesn't make it CHEAP.
Sean Malone
03-07-07, 04:28 PM
Alright, just to show Mr FTG that we are still fans (as opposed to people who post on a Champ Car forum because they hate Champ Car), if there are announcements tomorrow worth applauding we'll give our "old fart" stamp of approval. OK?
Racing Truth
03-07-07, 04:32 PM
Alright, just to show Mr FTG that we are still fans (as opposed to people who post on a Champ Car forum because they hate Champ Car), if there are announcements tomorrow worth applauding we'll give our "old fart" stamp of approval. OK?
:thumbup: :thumbup: Yep, and I'm hoping for good things.
Nah. This was a 3 tops. Nothin much to see here. No claims of never watchin CC again, no pouty I'm leavin OC and never comin back, no 'you're a poo-poo head' crap....
No, I'm sticking with 6.5. I think we're that good here.
I guess I'm just an offcamber cheerleader.:gomer:
As always, I'll watch the series because that's what i've done as far back as I can remember. If CC folds in the next 10 minutes, i'll still go grocery shopping.Can you pick me up a sixpack of the Steelbrokeback beer, or whatever it's called?
Thanks.
Many good points here. I think, bottom line, everybody here would LOVE to see CC excell and surpass all of our D&G. I think if there were ANY decent announcements, things would look brighter. We's a cynical group of old farts.
I'll get my Vegas tix this week. Should be fun.
typical excuses of the CCFantasies variety.
I'm just happy that 'Champcarfantasies' is really gaining momentum.
Back to the matter at hand. Kevin and Jerry will stop spending if they don't see a return. That's how self made rich dudes work. Tony will spend forever because racing is his business and he can keep this loser afloat with his other revenue streams. The way it looks now the CCWS will not be a money maker anytime soon (or ever with the current plan) as the public continues to be completely disinterested, Kevin and Jer-Bear bag it and Tony "wins". The IRL however will never be what CART was and the 500 will never return to what it was. Sportscar racing will continue to be a cyclical mess of ego's. Maybe Andy Evans will even make a return. And Nascar will fall off but remain a mainstream league battling the NBA for the eyes of suburban crackers who are scared of inner city black dudes who make a bungload of dough. Life will go on, Road America will still have major events and Siebken's will serve Jager shots in plastic cups. And maybe the dorks on fantasy island will flock to LaCrosse or Polo or something else no one cares about.
A spec car with no compitition, a naging driver who has to wreck cars to win, and vague rumors. Fun!:)
I like it. Frankly, I don't give a **** whether you do or not. If I wanted to be like everyone else, I'd watch NASCAR and pretend that I never voted for Bush.
Seems like you'll excuse anything
Nope. It is what it is. If it gets boring, I won't watch, but I think the racing will be good.
He's right. It doesn't exist now. If he doesn't like it, that makes him "an old fart who longs for the old days" but Champ Car doesn't need him to survive.
That's okay. Champcar-a needs-a me more than I need-a them! :laugh:
Seriously, if CC gets back to being about world-class drivers & technical competition, I'll be very happy.
Meanwhile, I've got MotoGP & F1 to spend my money on.
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