Denver Officially Gone

[Trevor Longman]

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=11243

This sucks. It's been great event the last few years.:shakehead

[Spicoli]

champcar is just ****ing weak these days. hard to get behind this ****.:shakehead

[Don Quixote]

Nuts. IMO, this race has produced the best racing of any street course on the schedule. :(

[SurfaceUnits]

champcar is just ****ing weak these days. hard to get behind this ****.:shakeheadgo play footsies with snuggles over at howard's place

[KLang]

Too bad, it's been a good race the last few years.

Wonder what this really means?

concerns over time conflicts with the facilities surrounding the temporary street course

[Accipiter]

One step forward, one step back. Repeat ad nauseum.

[rabbit]

Seven confirmed driver/team combos at Sebring - only two of which had actual cash-paying sponsors on them, Forsythe down to one car, Ford bails out, Denver off the sked. Not a whole lot to be excited about right now.

[DagoFast]

One step forward, one step back. Repeat ad nauseum.

:\

[Sean O'Gorman]

You guys should really try autocrossing, in time you'll forget Champ Car even existed.

[RHR_Fan]

That stinks. I thought Denver was one of the best races last year. Any word of a replacement race?

You never know what'll happen. I didn't think Road America was going to come back until at least '07.

~Nicole

[jonovision_man]

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=11243

This sucks. It's been great event the last few years.:shakehead

From the article:


The event, which has run for the last five seasons around the Pepsi Center in downtown Denver, will be removed from the 2007 calendar due to concerns over time conflicts with the facilities surrounding the temporary street course. Efforts to find a replacement date that accommodated the Pepsi Center and Champ Car, as well as the University of Colorado Auraria Campus that borders the track layout, were unable to find a suitable date that fit unto the series' race schedule. In addition, Denver's status as the host city for the Democratic National Convention in 2008 will force Champ Car to keep the event off of the '08 calendar as well.

Suuuuure. :rolleyes:

jono

[Wally]

Let me officially pile on.........:shakehead ......WTF! :confused:

[nrc]

Disappointing because it had become a pretty good event and it was always nice to have an excuse to go to Denver. But it's kind of ironic that folks are disappointed and upset since when it came on the schedule Denver was sort of the poster child for crappy street courses. :\

[G.]

Disappointing because it had become a pretty good event and it was always nice to have an excuse to go to Denver. But it's kind of ironic that folks are disappointed and upset since when it came on the schedule Denver was sort of the poster child for crappy street courses. :\When SB spun and went from DFL to the win, that pretty much shut anyone up about the no-passing-strrEt-parade crap.

This sux.:(

[nissan gtp]

too bad CC doesn't have the guts to just cancel it.

postponed :shakehead

[Ankf00]

Denver did what Miami couldn't. Overcome it's sub 1.5 Pook-ness.

[cameraman]

I think they can keep ownership of the race if they just postpone it for a year or two:rolleyes: whereas canceling it might open it up to the IRL.

[pchall]

Is this any worse than the deal in Vancouver?

[jonovision_man]

too bad CC doesn't have the guts to just cancel it.

postponed :shakehead

They probably will keep trying to find someone to promote it.

I just resent the lame excuse... events at the Pepsi Center, c'mon... and blaming the Democrats? :saywhat: :p

jono

[Tim]

I can't remeber the last time I haven't been excited about racing. Time for some good news or else the perception of bad times will just keep going. At least we still have F1.

[TravelGal]

Sad. It was always on my list but never made it to the top.

Much as you all would like to, I can't really blame CC for this one. Seemed like they were standing on a great big sinkhole that just caved under them.

[Spicoli]

You guys should really try autocrossing, in time you'll forget Champ Car even existed.

why don't you try shutting the **** up about this irrellevant ****.


maybe call up some girls n stuff.:gomer:

[Spicoli]

too bad CC doesn't have the guts to just cancel it.

postponed :shakehead


dooder: ain't over till they cancel RA. they owe us at least that. :D

[CART_Surfer]

Damn, Bugger, Crap.....although no great surprise with the rumours all flying around of late!!!

Had planned on flying over earlier for that race all the way from "Down Under" as it fitted in nicely with a course that I am doing in August.

Might just have to suck it all up, bite the bullet and fork out the airfare (not to mention casino chips) for Vegas instead!!!!

[Chiphead_Dave]

But it's kind of ironic that folks are disappointed and upset since when it came on the schedule Denver was sort of the poster child for crappy street courses. :\

Sure but it was my crappy street course (I live in N. Colorado).

This totally !@#!@#! blows. I have been to every one of the Denver events
since it came back on the schedule.....took my kids as well.

I even purchased a lens for my 20D specifically for the race.

Right now I don't care if you get any sponsors because I might not be watching.
I just can't get behind a series that has no event within driving distance of me.
Sorry but that's the way it is.

All's I can say is @#@!@$! off CHAMPCAR I am pissed at you right at the moment.:thumdown:
:flame:

[Easy]

This whole thing is turning into a bad joke.

[trauma1]

no chitt,just what direction is KK taking this sereis, GF is pissed at the world running 1 car, denver one of the best races the last 2 years axed, milwaukee gone, just how much of red bulls $$ is pullling this train right now, seems the euro tour was the make it or break it deals

[jonovision_man]

Disappointing because it had become a pretty good event and it was always nice to have an excuse to go to Denver. But it's kind of ironic that folks are disappointed and upset since when it came on the schedule Denver was sort of the poster child for crappy street courses. :\

I thought Denver was a pretty decent course. The scenery leaves a lot to be desired... but the course was good.

Mile-wide corner was just awesome, provided some good racey moments, interesting lines... and the Bourdais-PT punch-up. :)

San Jose, now there is a poster child for crappy street courses. Or Vancouver.

jono

[skaven]

This blows...

Add this to the list of tracks I've been to that are now gone - Denver, Vancouver, IMS, Michigan, Milwaukee, Gateway, Chip's Clip.

At least RA and Cleveland (that I've been to) are still on the schedule.

With Denver gone, I doubt I'll see a race this year. I just don't have the passion to spend the money and time for a fly away race.

I'm still paying my monthly $4.95 fee for Race Director as I feel $5 a month to support the series is worth it, but I'm starting to question that commitment.

[Chiphead_Dave]

With Denver gone, I doubt I'll see a race this year. I just don't have the passion to spend the money and time for a fly away race.



My passion for the series is directly proportional to the number of races
I see in person.

[NismoZ]

I know. I'm sure I became such a fan years ago because I was smack in the middle of a bunch of drive to races and now I'm too sentimental to let go of the good old days. I guess that's why we pray for great CC TV production in HD Surround.

[Racing Truth]

no chitt,just what direction is KK taking this sereis, GF is pissed at the world running 1 car, denver one of the best races the last 2 years axed, milwaukee gone, just how much of red bulls $$ is pullling this train right now, seems the euro tour was the make it or break it deals

NOOOO! A N. American OW series being subsidized by outside forces? I'm shocked!

:tony:

I guess the Kalkhoven=Jesus meme is officially dead. Good. He wasn't nearly as omnipotent as some made it to be. Then too, he's still far better than IRLers make him to be.

Piece of advice: If someone w/ power in this sport opens their mouth, just presume they're lying, to some extent.

[cart7]

So long Denver.

http://www.imagecrown.com/images/cart3903/beverlyhbye.jpg

[pchall]

I repeat myself:


Is this any worse than the deal in Vancouver?

[extramundane]

I repeat myself:

At least Vancouver's demise was announced ahead of time. Releasing a schedule that included Denver, then pulling it was bush league stuff.

[Ed_Severson]

At least Vancouver's demise was announced ahead of time. Releasing a schedule that included Denver, then pulling it was bush league stuff.

What would you have suggested as an alternative?

When the schedule was announced in September of 2006, Denver's spot on the schedule was not a problem at all. At the time, we had no idea what dates the European races would end up on, or if there even *would* be European events. It wasn't until the races in Holland and Belgium were finalized for the first two weekends in September 2007 that we had a problem.

And for all the griping about "excuses," I'll ask you guys the same question ... got any better ideas? Given the choice between staging a race with no promoter in Denver and two races with a very willing promoter in Europe, which would you choose? Which makes more sense financially? Logistically, we can't do both as scheduled because an August 19th race in Denver does not give enough time for a turnaround and load in Indy to get equipment to Assen and through customs before August 29th. The only alternative would be to run Denver earlier -- either August 12th or August 5th. Road America is currently on the schedule for August 12th, and is booked the weekend of the 19th, so we can't swap dates for those two events. August 5th was a conflict with the Pepsi Center.

I think losing Denver for the next two years sucks too, but it's not like we're just writing imaginary things in the press releases. The reasons given for the postponement of the event are legitimate, and there's a reason the word "postpone" was chosen rather than the word "cancel." We've got two years to find a promoter and a date that will work for all parties in 2009; we'll be back in Denver unless it makes sense for us not to be.

[KLang]

Thanks for the info Ed. :thumbup:

[extramundane]

And for all the griping about "excuses," I'll ask you guys the same question ... got any better ideas? Given the choice between staging a race with no promoter in Denver and two races with a very willing promoter in Europe, which would you choose? Which makes more sense financially?

In the immediate term or in the long term? Paycheck vs. No Paycheck is great and all, but if you're trying to (re)build an American-based series, shedding American events while adding new events in Europe doesn't seem to make much sense.

Note that losing a hokey street course in favor of 2 real road courses is great from a racing perspective, but I don't see the events in question as doing much for the series overall, even if one of the events is airing on the juggernaut that is ESPN Classic :tony:

[Rob]

When the schedule was announced in September of 2006, Denver's spot on the schedule was not a problem at all. At the time, we had no idea what dates the European races would end up on, or if there even *would* be European events. It wasn't until the races in Holland and Belgium were finalized for the first two weekends in September 2007 that we had a problem.

And for all the griping about "excuses," I'll ask you guys the same question ... got any better ideas? Given the choice between staging a race with no promoter in Denver and two races with a very willing promoter in Europe, which would you choose? Which makes more sense financially? Logistically, we can't do both as scheduled because an August 19th race in Denver does not give enough time for a turnaround and load in Indy to get equipment to Assen and through customs before August 29th. The only alternative would be to run Denver earlier -- either August 12th or August 5th. Road America is currently on the schedule for August 12th, and is booked the weekend of the 19th, so we can't swap dates for those two events. August 5th was a conflict with the Pepsi Center.
I don't understand why they scheduled the Euro swing so early in September. Neither Assen nor Zolder have anything else on their schedules in September until the weekend of the 22nd, and the Champ Car teams will be twiddling their thumbs for a month and a half between Europe and Australia. They could have pushed each of the Euro races back a week and kept the Denver race, and there wouldn't be any scheduling problems anywhere.

[jonovision_man]

What would you have suggested as an alternative?

When the schedule was announced in September of 2006, Denver's spot on the schedule was not a problem at all. At the time, we had no idea what dates the European races would end up on, or if there even *would* be European events. It wasn't until the races in Holland and Belgium were finalized for the first two weekends in September 2007 that we had a problem.

And for all the griping about "excuses," I'll ask you guys the same question ... got any better ideas? Given the choice between staging a race with no promoter in Denver and two races with a very willing promoter in Europe, which would you choose? Which makes more sense financially? Logistically, we can't do both as scheduled because an August 19th race in Denver does not give enough time for a turnaround and load in Indy to get equipment to Assen and through customs before August 29th. The only alternative would be to run Denver earlier -- either August 12th or August 5th. Road America is currently on the schedule for August 12th, and is booked the weekend of the 19th, so we can't swap dates for those two events. August 5th was a conflict with the Pepsi Center.

I think losing Denver for the next two years sucks too, but it's not like we're just writing imaginary things in the press releases. The reasons given for the postponement of the event are legitimate, and there's a reason the word "postpone" was chosen rather than the word "cancel." We've got two years to find a promoter and a date that will work for all parties in 2009; we'll be back in Denver unless it makes sense for us not to be.

ChampCar didn't mention Europe in their announcement.

What would I suggest as an alternative? If you're negotiating with Europe, and you're going to drop Denver if it works out, then make the Denver date "provisional". Europe was being talked about long before the sched came out, so if that's the reason for Denver being punted then Denver should have not been on the schedule. Simple as that.

jono

[Chiphead_Dave]

; we'll be back in Denver unless it makes sense for us not to be.

So I should just cancel my plans of ever attending a Champcar race
in Denver ever again right now.:thumdown:

I have heard lots of talk about Champcar doing things to support the fans at tremendous cost.....well put your money and time where your mouth is
and bring back Denver in 2007.

I don't care about a euro tour, however I realize that there are people who do.
But to me personally Denver is my home track and now there is no race in Denver.

[NismoZ]

Then look around Denver for some rich business types to put THEIR time, mouths and money where they can please you the most. Fault is easily placed wherever it makes you happiest but I don't see CC doing in Denver what they did for Long Beach. It is not THAT important for either the Denver community or ChampCar apparantly. Sure don't want to mess up those empty parking lots at the Auraria campus or ask the Pepsi Center to make an adjustment. That's too much to ask.:shakehead My guess is CC found postponing Denver far more preferrable to letting the possibility of huge events in Europe get away. There are Dutch promoters there who are sinking a lot more into those events than anyone in Denver would dream of doing. It is a business afterall and CC probably just paid for the trip to Europe and back by cutting their "investment" here.

[Ed_Severson]

If you're negotiating with Europe, and you're going to drop Denver if it works out, then make the Denver date "provisional" ... Simple as that.

If only it actually was that simple. You're acting as if it was an either/or proposition, but that's not the case. In the end, we had to give up Denver in order to put Assen and Zolder on the schedule because of the dates we ended up with in Europe. However, had we been able to secure different European dates there would have been no reason to drop Denver and we would still be running that event. Denver was never provisional in any sense of the word.


Neither Assen nor Zolder have anything else on their schedules in September until the weekend of the 22nd, and the Champ Car teams will be twiddling their thumbs for a month and a half between Europe and Australia. They could have pushed each of the Euro races back a week and kept the Denver race, and there wouldn't be any scheduling problems anywhere.

As for the schedules at Zolder and Assen, Rob, I believe you're only half right. Assen's schedule is open in September until the weekend of the 22nd; Zolder's, however, is not, which was the hang-up. The only thing I could find on the web for a Zolder schedule was for 2006, but I'm pretty sure they've got other events scheduled in mid-September which prevented us from going to Europe later in the month.


So I should just cancel my plans of ever attending a Champcar race in Denver ever again right now.

Or, as an alternative, you could act like a rational human being and wait to see what happens with the promoter. No offense, Dave, but I don't control where we race and where we don't -- I'm just passing along what I know. If you want to get pissy about it, go bark up another tree. I'm sorry you lost your home event, and as I stated above, I think it sucks too, but the circumstances are understandable. Thanks for the petulance, though. :thumbup:

[Spicoli]

So who is in charge these day that I can thank for ****ing things up so nicely this year? :D

[Chiphead_Dave]

Or, as an alternative, you could act like a rational human being and wait to see what happens with the promoter. No offense, Dave, but I don't control where we race and where we don't -- I'm just passing along what I know. If you want to get pissy about it, go bark up another tree. I'm sorry you lost your home event, and as I stated above, I think it sucks too, but the circumstances are understandable. Thanks for the petulance, though. :thumbup:

Rational...I thought we were talking about racing here....nothing rational about it.

Not trying to be pissy.....I just don't like that they have had well over a year to deal with the sponsor issues...with (from the outside looking in) no progress.

You are right that the Pepsi Center is a pain to deal with....but Champcar chose to have to deal with these problems when they started moving twards street races as their main venues. Try living here and (for those who live in the Denver metro area) paying taxes to subsidize it.

I also have the feeling that this event will be abandoned in the end.
The Denver/New Mexico/Wyoming/Utah market has long been underapreciated by bigtime motorsports.

[devilmaster]

I suppose this will become the norm.

One of the downsides to having a series come back from oblivion is that it will be tough to find promoters who have the financial willpower to continue to run one track continually.

I suspect there will always be a rotation of events that will only last 5 years or so. In reality, there always has been those events that don't last, but more of them now to fill out the sked.

[jonovision_man]

Races from years past and their current status (Alive/Dead). The solid core of the series seems to be Long Beach, Portland, Cleveland, Toronto, Australia, and Mexico City. (I have a few doubts on Portland but for now looks OK).


2006

Alive:
Long Beach
Houston
Road America
Australia
Mexico City
Portland
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
San Jose

Dead:
Denver
Montreal
Monterrey
Milwaukee


2005

Alive:
Long Beach
Portland
Cleveland
Toronto
Edmonton
San Jose
Australia
Mexico City

Dead:
Monterrey
Milwaukee
Denver
Montreal
Las Vegas (oval)

2004

Alive:
Long Beach
Portland
Cleveland
Toronto
Elkhart Lake
Australia
Mexico City

Dead:
Monterrey
Milwaukee
Vancouver
Denver
Montreal
Laguna Seca
Las Vegas

jono

[Krutch]

The main reason for the early september Euro dates is F1 in Spa @ 16 september. You rather be before that than later. Also, the later you are in September the worse the weather gets over here.

[dando]

Denver can't even keep their PGA Tour date due to $pon$or issues:

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2757727

That speaks volumes about the lack of corporate backbone in Denver, as PGA dates are usually a slam dunk for the majority venues...schedule spots just don't turn over that often.

-Kevin

[Chiphead_Dave]

Denver can't even keep their PGA Tour date due to $pon$or issues:

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=2757727

That speaks volumes about the lack of corporate backbone in Denver, as PGA dates are usually a slam dunk for the majority venues...schedule spots just don't turn over that often.

-Kevin

You have to remember that Quest used to sponsor it.

Therefore it it was tainted and doomed.

[CShooter]

This bites, blows, you name it.
I would say to the forces behind it Fyou. I won't however say F to CC. If they want to keep it alive, they had better stop this *****. :mad:

[Hesketh]

[QUOTE=Ed_Severson;185067]Denver was never provisional in any sense of the word.


QUOTE]


Apparently, it was. :shakehead