View Full Version : Bordais / Toro Rosso part deux
rosawendel
01-19-07, 09:44 AM
Bourdais to test Toro Rosso again (http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070119121205.shtml)
Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais will be given another chance to shine at the wheel of a Toro Rosso.
That is the promise of Gerhard Berger, who alongside Red Bull magnate Dietrich Mateschitz co-owns the Faenza based Grand Prix team.
Bourdais, 27, tested a Toro Rosso late last year but insists that he will honour his contract for 2007 with Champ Car team Newman/Haas.
Indeed, Berger counts Bourdais among the contenders for a ride next year, and told Auto Motor und Sport that the Frenchman will 'continue to be observed' by Toro Rosso.
After criticising Tonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed in the same interview with the German magazine, former Grand Prix winner Berger then applauded Bourdais for the 'seriousness' with which he approaches his job.
"The only question that remains now is how much quicker he can go. A second test will give us the answer," Berger said.
E.A.
Source GMM
Bourdais may get his wish and those in CC could benefit. I believe Bourdais could not leave without N/H getting some much needed cash. IF he were to leave then Bruno would seem to have a more secure position. (and at least one other driver "down the line" like Servia or another European with aspirations?) The title would then at least have the appearance of being more wide open. Three titles, nothing left to prove here, N/H happy to get cash, hire Graham and retain Bruno (?). Personally I believe losing the champion could actually be a good thing for all involved. Bourdais is the one with the greatest risk in a move such as this. Maybe Carl would actually like to unload him at this point. He sure seems to be very accomodating. Hope it works out for everyone.
SurfaceUnits
02-02-07, 06:02 AM
Berger coy on driver announcement
Racing series F1
Date 2007-01-31
Toro Rosso co-owner Gerhard Berger isn't giving anything away about the team's 2007 racers...
Q: Robert Doornbos has been confirmed by Red Bull as a test driver for 2007, so we can now say Tonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed for next year?
Gerhard Berger: No, we are going to announce our drivers when we are ready.
Q: So when?
GB: We are not ready yet. In some moment during the next weeks.
Q: Why are you waiting so long?
GB: Because we are still having certain things to sort out and we are still not ready to announce our drivers.
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After everything that has happened the past couple of weeks, I think Bourdais leaving now would just be viewed as another black eye against the series. But I wouldn't SeaBass to miss out on a good opportunity if it is available.
So driving for TR in F-1 is a "good" opportunity? I think driving for DCR in CC may be viewed as a better (relative) opportunity these days. If his goal is to just get to F-1 then fine. If he really wants it then I hope he gets there. Personally I can't see how his moving to F-1 would be such a "loss" to CC even though it will be presented as such. Three time consecutive winners ought to be fired anyway so others don't get discouraged.;)
Insomniac
02-02-07, 01:17 PM
So driving for TR in F-1 is a "good" opportunity? I think driving for DCR in CC may be viewed as a better (relative) opportunity these days. If his goal is to just get to F-1 then fine. If he really wants it then I hope he gets there. Personally I can't see how his moving to F-1 would be such a "loss" to CC even though it will be presented as such. Three time consecutive winners ought to be fired anyway so others don't get discouraged.;)
What more can he do in CC? If what he has done only gets him a test and maye a ride in F1, then that's probably the best he can get by racing in CC. He'll have to take it, pray something better might come along, or forget about F1. From my perspective, if F1 is his goal, he's going to have to prove himself in F1 to get a top ride, because winning 3 championships in CC isn't as important as actual F1 seat time.
Insomniac
02-02-07, 01:18 PM
After everything that has happened the past couple of weeks, I think Bourdais leaving now would just be viewed as another black eye against the series. But I wouldn't SeaBass to miss out on a good opportunity if it is available.
Wouldn't be a loss to me. :D
trauma1
02-02-07, 02:36 PM
we are about to find how much $$ is pulling the CC train , 10-1 they buy out his contract
As I've said before I think King Carl would actually like to see that. Then he could keep Bruno if he's still available and partner him with future champ Rahal.;) There better be deadlines built in here because I will be VERY disappointed if we find drivers at Vegas who didn't participate in any or only 1 of the pre-season tests. I can see a Boss for example buying in with a no-cut deal on Thursday of race week.:shakehead (his test wasn't kept secret just because he was shy.)
Racing Truth
02-02-07, 03:59 PM
So, Doorknob's out apparently.
No, actually I think he'll be in CC but it seems uncertain where. Still rumor talk of Speed to CC but I think not. I just can't see Haas going with TWO newbies no matter how much he saves or gets in sponsorship. He still wants to win and unless he thinks Rahal can win from the get go he'll want a proven experienced driver (or winner) to team with him. Rahal may not be around for long. Doornbos may be on a one year plan. Even for the top team in CC landing a top driver is tough. I always figured Marco would land there someday on his way to F-1 but he might not be in The League much longer either if he aces his new test. Even Richard Lyons who tested well in CC was blown away by that kid Summerton in the A1 test by about TWELVE positions! Maybe Formula Atlantic is the only place to look anymore? It'll be upsetting if 18 aren't testing at Houston MSR.
trauma1
02-02-07, 05:18 PM
n/h can still have junky, imo if red bull throws enough cash at carl he's taking it
diamond dave
02-02-07, 05:20 PM
Uncle Gerry better get one of the "corporate" drivers or he'll only run PT for probably one more year. He's pizzled that he's not getting in the RB soup line.
trauma1
02-02-07, 05:32 PM
Uncle Gerry better get one of the "corporate" drivers or he'll only run PT for probably one more year. He's pizzled that he's not getting in the RB soup line.
he got 50 cents for his atlantic teams that was it, that's why he's pissed RB poached Aj and then gave KK all the money and now N/H will get even more
Racing Truth
02-02-07, 06:43 PM
No, actually I think he'll be in CC but it seems uncertain where. Still rumor talk of Speed to CC but I think not. I just can't see Haas going with TWO newbies no matter how much he saves or gets in sponsorship. He still wants to win and unless he thinks Rahal can win from the get go he'll want a proven experienced driver (or winner) to team with him. Rahal may not be around for long. Doornbos may be on a one year plan. Even for the top team in CC landing a top driver is tough. I always figured Marco would land there someday on his way to F-1 but he might not be in The League much longer either if he aces his new test. Even Richard Lyons who tested well in CC was blown away by that kid Summerton in the A1 test by about TWELVE positions! Maybe Formula Atlantic is the only place to look anymore? It'll be upsetting if 18 aren't testing at Houston MSR.
Care to explain the FIRST question in the Q&A (Where Doornbos is CONFIRMED as TR test driver?
If Bourdais goes NOW, how is that anything but VERY BAD?
trauma1
02-02-07, 06:53 PM
actually seabass going to F1 would give the series more credibilty right nowm he deserves the ride if he gets it, only thing is carl will have to keep junky
Racing Truth
02-02-07, 06:57 PM
actually seabass going to F1 would give the series more credibilty right nowm he deserves the ride if he gets it, only thing is carl will have to keep junky
Bunk. Going from CC to Torro Rosso is different than going to McLaren, Renault, or even Williams. Plus, it becomes something of an F1 feeder series, not the best of perceptions.
Plus, it becomes something of an F1 feeder series, not the best of perceptions.
Nonsense. F1 is still the top of the tree no matter how much we hate Bernie and Max. There was a time when we were all thrilled with Mario and Revie going to F1 after climbing to the top of US racing.
RT, I read on 1/30 that he had given up hope of getting one of the pay race seats for '07 and had signed a TR reserve driver and test contract for '07. The article went on to say however that he also "confirmed" he would spearhead his Grand Prix duties from a race seat in America but couldn't say yet which team he would sign with but it would be very soon, before the Houston test. My comment here was maybe he wanted to follow engineer Mike Cannon to Minardi instead of going to FCR like he said originally. It may have all changed in the last day or two. I didn't think he could do both.
AND if Doornbos does not come to ChampCar who's to say it wasn't his slow CC test times that led him to take the F-1 reserve/test duties? That's OK by me if it leads to guys like Bruno, Speedy or Servia landing at Minardi or Forsythe. The big thing with Doornbos was his money not his speed. Plus Stoddart wanted TWO of "his own" drivers and was still talking 3 cars at Sebring. It'll be 2 if no Doornbos I think.
Latest has Doornbos' manager countering rumors that his signing a CC contract (probably at Forsythe or Minardi, within 2 weeks) would jeopardize his testing role at TR. Seems to show the test duties are still #1 with them and CC is just to keep him sharp for F-1. I repeat: If he can't do every CC race with 100% committment then get someone else. (Unless 100% of his $$ remain to run a top replacement. I'm easy.:rolleyes: ) Oh, and N/H says Bourdais stays... "and pronounces McDonalds just fine."
Doornobs is a tester for the former Jaguar team not the former Minardi team. STR hasn't announced any drivers at all.
jonovision_man
02-07-07, 03:43 PM
Interesting. I believe Bourdais was the fastest guy in their car outside of their current line-up... so he could still be in the running?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56625
"I think our two drivers are in pole position," the Austrian former racer told the official Formula One website. "Most likely we are going this route but it is not done yet."
Berger said the team, who have also yet to unveil their new car, had options.
"Money is not an issue," he said. "We are trying to get the best guys in our cars. We are looking for performance.
"It is the performance that will get a driver a cockpit and not a hand waving a cheque. If our main criteria were money, we would have done this already."
I saw that. What the hell does "our two drivers are in pole position" mean? They may never sniff the front half of the field!:D
jonovision_man
02-13-07, 10:00 AM
Liuzzi confirmed, Speed still a question-mark. :confused:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56719
With Scott we still have some contractual issues to sort out. We are going to see later.
I don't quite get it... if Bourdais is still in the picture I assume they'd want him in the car doing testing kilometers right now.
jono
robot9000
02-13-07, 11:28 AM
Speed article suggests that Scott signed to a 'high 7 figure' salary with RB. But with Berger taking a 1/2 interest in the team, he is trying to cut costs. Meaning, hes trying to get Scott Speed's salary down from probaby 8M to more like.......?
jonovision_man
02-13-07, 12:12 PM
Speed article suggests that Scott signed to a 'high 7 figure' salary with RB. But with Berger taking a 1/2 interest in the team, he is trying to cut costs. Meaning, hes trying to get Scott Speed's salary down from probaby 8M to more like.......?
$8M?? For Scott Speed? That's nuts.
jono
robot9000
02-13-07, 12:25 PM
Thats what the article said. Hey, it was Red Bull and F1 at the time, so anything is possible I guess.....
From Speedtv:
"Speed was signed by Red Bull to drive for STR prior to Berger’s acquisition of 50 percent of Toro Rosso’s shares. It is believed the Californian back then made the best of his condition as the only solid American prospect in F1, negotiating a healthy salary (believed to be in the high-seven figures) to drive in his rookie year. Since then, however, Berger has been under pressure from the energy drinks company to bring additional funding to the team, which would make him unwilling to pay a high salary to Speed."
Heck, if I were Scott Speed, I'd be willing to take, say, $3M and try and develop a career in F1....
jonovision_man
02-13-07, 03:00 PM
Bizarre... I just don't see why they would have paid him that much more than they really had to? Just thinking back to when Justin Wilson floated shares in his career just to pay for a Minardi ride.
If he has a contract, he has every right to get them to stick to it, no sense in driving for less than you signed for.
jono
Insomniac
02-13-07, 03:28 PM
Bizarre... I just don't see why they would have paid him that much more than they really had to? Just thinking back to when Justin Wilson floated shares in his career just to pay for a Minardi ride.
If he has a contract, he has every right to get them to stick to it, no sense in driving for less than you signed for.
jono
Seems like he capitalized on being an American. They could've hired someone for less, but someone felt him being an American was worth it (sponsors, merchandising?). Him crashing out on lap 1 of the USGP didn't help much with US exposure though.
rosawendel
02-13-07, 05:37 PM
That's surprising to me. I thought the Red Bull driver search program required drivers to sign to contracts that were a pittance of competitive salaries in order for them to get behind the wheel.
I guess i just thought that program was directly tied to the team programs, and i guess it's not...
That's surprising to me. I thought the Red Bull driver search program required drivers to sign to contracts that were a pittance of competitive salaries in order for them to get behind the wheel.
I guess i just thought that program was directly tied to the team programs, and i guess it's not...
The original contracts that were pushed in the faces of the guys when they got to the first shoot-out were very restrictive but were altered when pretty much no one would sign them. According to one of the original class, the final contract was not as bad as had been made out in the media and on the internets.
Still, I was under the impression that even if one of them got to F1 the salary was already negotiated and pretty low, like $250k a year. Although I seem to remember news of Scott Speed re-newing his Red Bull contract after his GP2 season, maybe his original, "US Driver Search" contract had expired.
jonovision_man
02-24-07, 12:47 PM
Speed to stay at TR. Guess Bourdais stays put.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56927
jono
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