Road America News

[NismoZ]

New wide tunnel to paddock about 100 yds. south of the farmhouse between 13 & 14. Replaces the Mitchell bridge and provides better spectating. ( berms?:eek: ) Finished by Cycle Week in May.

[diamond dave]

cool

[nissan gtp]

anybody got pics ?

[Methanolandbrats]

Excellent. Hopefully drivers won't be heading straight for a concrete wall at 130 mph. Dumbest turn in motorsports.

[RHR_Fan]

Taken from Champweb.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Methanolic_2006/road1214.jpg

[Accipiter]

Good move. Every time they go through there, I think of Memo Gidley's shattered car.

[NismoZ]

16 ft.high, 2 vehicle lanes, 2 walkways.:thumbup: Seriously, looking down Thunder Valley from the paddock side of the bridge was one of the nicest Kodak Moment spots at RA...until huge view-blocking billboards were erected for TV.:mad: I hope some of the excavated earth can be used to create raised viewing areas on both sides of the tunnel as the slopes leading in and out may push us even further from the track. Fingers crossed for that kind of improvement as well.

[Redwing]

I drove past it yesterday in hopes of getting a better view of what is going on, but I didn't see much more than a huge pile of gravel near the site.

[ChampcarShark]

this makes the track safer for our beloved drivers.

Change is good.

[diamond dave]

I wish they'd widen the back part of the track going into T14:thumbup:

[Peter Olivola]

Why?


I wish they'd widen the back part of the track going into T14:thumbup:

[diamond dave]

Why?

why not?
more cars fighting 3 or more wide going into T14 heading up the hill onto the straighaway screaming into T1

[Peter Olivola]

Turn 14 is the most technically challenging turn at Road America. Actually, it's the only technically challenging turn at Road America. RA doesn't need another point and squirt turn.


why not?
more cars fighting 3 or more wide going into T14 heading up the hill onto the straighaway screaming into T1

[Opposite Lock]

Turn 14 is the most technically challenging turn at Road America. Actually, it's the only technically challenging turn at Road America. RA doesn't need another point and squirt turn.

I'd like to try and understand your point. How does the T9-10 (Carousel) rate in your "technical challenge" system?

[Methanolandbrats]

Turn 14 is the most technically challenging turn at Road America. Actually, it's the only technically challenging turn at Road America. RA doesn't need another point and squirt turn. Ya, and San Jose is a lot more challenging than Spa. :shakehead

[cameraman]

From the ALMS web site:

http://www.americanlemans.com/News/NewsImages/1215200684154156_HomeImage.JPG

Unfortunately all they had was this small version of the drawing.

[Peter Olivola]

The Carousel is about car set up, not driving. Fourteen can only be done with car set up if you throw away other, more important parts of the track in your set up. The second most technical turn, is 7.


I'd like to try and understand your point. How does the T9-10 (Carousel) rate in your "technical challenge" system?

[Peter Olivola]

San Jose is more technically challenging that Spa. That doesn't detract from the fact that Spa is one of the best tracks in the world, but removing all technical aspects turns a road course into an oval with both left and right hand turns.


Ya, and San Jose is a lot more challenging than Spa. :shakehead

[Ziggy]

/\/\what a glue huffer/\/\

subscribes to the " it's all pink on the inside" school of thought no doubt

[Peter Olivola]

I think it's safe to conclude you have no idea what "technical" means wrt driving a race track.


/\/\what a glue huffer/\/\

subscribes to the " it's all pink on the inside" school of thought no doubt

[nissan gtp]

San Jose is more technically challenging that Spa. That doesn't detract from the fact that Spa is one of the best tracks in the world, but removing all technical aspects turns a road course into an oval with both left and right hand turns.

oh dear god :saywhat:

[NismoZ]

Turn 7 at RA is amazing and more fun to gage driver skills than just about anywhere else on the track. Of course I've spent way more time there over the years than at 14, but getting out of 14 right means you get to t-1 first (all other things being equal) so, it is VERY important. Always been a fan of the DRIVER side of the technical!;) I'm declaring a Christmas season cease fire.

[Peter Olivola]

Okay, now it's your turn. What does "technical" mean wrt driving a race course?


oh dear god :saywhat:

[Peter Olivola]

What makes 14 more technical and technically important than 7 is what precedes and follows it. Thirteen is very high speed and the oposite direction and as you note, the front straight follows it. Seven OTOH, is between the slowish 6 and 8 with a very short run (for Road America) to 8.


Turn 7 at RA is amazing and more fun to gage driver skills than just about anywhere else on the track. Of course I've spent way more time there over the years than at 14, but getting out of 14 right means you get to t-1 first (all other things being equal) so, it is VERY important. Always been a fan of the DRIVER side of the technical!;) I'm declaring a Christmas season cease fire.

[Tony George]

Is it time to black flag this thread? The Steward has spoken (numerous times)! :rolleyes:

[RHR_Fan]

Is it time to black flag this thread? The Steward has spoken (numerous times)! :rolleyes:

Are we actually succeeding at a meltdown? :eek: ;)

[ferrarigod]

San Jose is more technically challenging that Spa. That doesn't detract from the fact that Spa is one of the best tracks in the world, but removing all technical aspects turns a road course into an oval with both left and right hand turns.

I can't believe that was actually a written paragraph by a Champ Car fan.

In what way is San Jose more technically challenging? Let me ask how you mean that before I attack. Please explain in complete detail with whatever context you are referring to. Mechanical, driver, aerodynamic, etc. etc.

[Peter Olivola]

San Jose, like virtually all street races, is a technical drivers track. The best analogy I can come up with is the old form of figure skating which rewarded a form of precision in doing, literally, "figures," that bears only limited resemblence to what everyone thinks of as figure skating.

Street courses are, for the most part, a series of slow to slow/medium speed turns. The technique that works is a level of precision that is different from courses like Road America and Spa that place more emphasis on high speed cornering.

Ovals are the extreme opposite of stret courses, i.e., almost entirely without technical precision, even without the traffic factor.

Consider what happens on an oval when two cars run side by side through a turn. While both are slowed, it's no where near the same degree that would happen on a street course.

It's not a question of the technical aspects of the cars or the overall skills of the drivers. Technical driving skills are one aspect of overall driving skills. Some examples of drivers with high technical skills would be Mario Andretti and Bobby Rahal. Those with less technical orientation would be Paul Tracy and Greg Moore. No one would accuse the latter of being slow.

In F1 probably the best contrast was Jimmy Clark vs Jack Brabham. Clark was well known for being almost robot like in his precision while Brabham was never observed to take the same corner the same way two laps in a row. It's probably not a coincidence that Brabham did a lot of dirt oval racing early in his career.

It would be a mistake to view this as the kind of issue that separates drivers by large degrees. It's more like one of the things that identifies a driver's on track personality. Perhaps an extreme example of a driver with outstanding technical skills but not being quite as good in other areas would be Brian Herta. At the other end of the extreme would be Sam Hornish.


I can't believe that was actually a written paragraph by a Champ Car fan.

In what way is San Jose more technically challenging? Let me ask how you mean that before I attack. Please explain in complete detail with whatever context you are referring to. Mechanical, driver, aerodynamic, etc. etc.

[G.]

C'mon, guys.

Challenge the man on knowledge, not "wit" in posting.

:shakehead

[nrc]

Folks, you don't have to agree with Peter or be his BFF, but if you can't speak to his points instead of posting personal attacks or childish crap please just don't reply at all.

As for the technical challenge of street racing, it's not a new concept. Railbird spoke eloquently about it.

[Redwing]

Cool pics of the tunnel excavation at RA. It will be nice to see that entire section of the track from 12 to 14.

http://photos.roadamerica.com/gallery/2317236

[oddlycalm]

Thanks for posting a link to the excavation pics Redwing :thumbup: Looks like a nice upgrade for the track from where I sit.

Anyone think we should draft a letter to the local paper to complain about destruction of gopher habitat just to stir them up a little...? :gomer: ;)

oc

[NismoZ]

My main wish is getting better sight lines for race viewing and it looks like that will happen. I just worry about how far back from the track we'll be pushed. I would suggest raised berms that are often seen on European tracks, similar to what was done at the IMS F-1 circuit. SO much has been done at RA over the years to ruin good photo spots I can only hope this reverses the trend. Safety of course, but I hope this whole section isn't lined with cement and chain link.

[race chica]

Completely random question. I couldn’t tell from the drawing where the race cars go and where the other cars/spectators go. If the racecars are on top, how would they stay on track if an incident happens while crossing the tunnel? It doesn’t look that there is catch fencing and we have all seen cars fly 10+ feet in the air. Any helpful comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[gpflepsen]

Completely random question. I couldn’t tell from the drawing where the race cars go and where the other cars/spectators go. If the racecars are on top, how would they stay on track if an incident happens while crossing the tunnel? It doesn’t look that there is catch fencing and we have all seen cars fly 10+ feet in the air. Any helpful comments would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Concrete walls and catch fence, just like the front straight or through T4 or down before T12.