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jcollins28
09-16-06, 02:37 PM
An eight-month Yahoo! Sports investigation has revealed that Heisman Trophy-winning running back Reggie Bush and his family appear to have accepted financial benefits worth more than $100,000 from marketing agents while Bush was playing at the University of Southern California.

The benefits, which could lead to NCAA sanctions for USC and retroactively cost Bush his college eligibility and Heisman, were supplied by two groups attempting to woo Bush as a client. Current Bush marketing agent Mike Ornstein and one of Ornstein's employees were involved. So were Michael Michaels and Lloyd Lake, who attempted to launch an agency called New Era Sports & Entertainment, pursuing Bush as their first client.

Bush declined comment to Yahoo! Sports, and Ornstein denied any wrongdoing on his and Bush's behalf.

But documents and on-the-record interviews with sources close to the situation reveal that Bush and his family appear to have received financial benefits from Ornstein and a business associate. Those benefits include:

--$595.20 in round-trip airfare from San Diego to Oakland in November 2005 for Bush's stepfather, LaMar Griffin, his mother, Denise Griffin and younger brother to attend the USC-California game at Berkeley. The fees were charged to the credit card of Jamie Fritz, an employee of Ornstein. The document detailing the charges was provided by Lee Pfeifer, an estranged business associate of Ornstein's.

--$250.65 for limousine transportation from the Oakland airport to the Ritz-Carlton in San Francisco that November weekend for the Bush family, charged to Fritz, according to a document. Ornstein acknowledged both he and Bush's family stayed at the luxury hotel.

Additionally, New Jersey memorabilia dealer Bob DeMartino alleges that Ornstein provided:

--Suits for Bush's stepfather and brother to wear during the Dec. 10, 2005 Heisman ceremony in New York, a makeover for his mother for the event and limousine transportation;

--Weekly payments of at least $1,500 to the Bush family.

Documents and multiple sources also link Bush and his family to receiving benefits from New Era's financial backers, including:

--$623.63 for a hotel stay by Bush at the Venetian Resort & Casino in Las Vegas from March 11-13, 2005, charged to Michaels, according to a document signed by Bush.

--$1,574.86 for a stay by Bush at the Manchester Hyatt in San Diego from March 4-6, 2005, paid for by Michaels, according to a hotel document, a hotel employee and a source.

--Approximately $13,000 to Bush from New Era to purchase and modify a car, three sources said.

--As reported by Yahoo! Sports in April, $54,000 in rent-free living for a year at Michaels' $757,500 home in Spring Valley, Calif., according to Michaels and San Diego attorney Brian Watkins.

--Also from previous Yahoo! reports, $28,000 from Michaels to help Bush's family settle pre-existing debt, according to Michaels and Watkins.

--Thousands of dollars in spending money to both Bush and his family from the prospective agents, according to multiple sources.
Approached about the financial ties on Sept. 7. Bush politely dismissed a Yahoo! Sports reporter.

"I don't want to talk about it," he said, three days before making his NFL debut with the New Orleans Saints last Sunday.

Meanwhile, Ornstein denied giving Bush or his family benefits, calling the accusation of cash payments a lie. Ornstein described travel arrangements made by Fritz as loans that were paid back by the Bush family.

"Reggie Bush never received an extra benefit from Mike Ornstein other than what he was allowed to get from the NCAA when he worked with us," Ornstein said, referring to the fact that Bush was an intern at Ornstein's marketing company in the summer of 2005. "I feel pretty damn good about that.''

Asked why his employee, Fritz, had paid for airfare and a limousine for the Bush family's trip to the Cal game, Ornstein said he believed the funds were paid back.

"Jamie may have paid or put it on his credit card," Ornstein said. "I don't think (Reggie's) parents have a credit card, but his parents paid for everything."

Fritz declined comment, but documents obtained by Yahoo! Sports indicate both the airfare and limousine rental for the trip to the Bay Area were paid in full on Fritz's American Express card prior to the trip being taken. Ornstein also used the card in August to book his own trip to Bush's NFL preseason debut against the Tennessee Titans.

The card establishes a direct link between Bush's family and Ornstein's office while Bush was still at USC, but Ornstein insisted it was merely a matter of helping the family.

"If the dad asked, then maybe (Jamie helped)," he said. "The (family) went on other trips. I'm sure the father – if it was anything that needed a credit card to guarantee the hotel and everything – then I'm sure Jamie will have documentation and cash receipts from the father. I guarantee it."

Asked whether he was aware that such loans could constitute an NCAA violation, Ornstein replied: "I have no idea."

NCAA by-law 12.3.1.2 states that an athlete shall be deemed ineligible if he or she accepts benefits from agents or marketing representatives. The rule further states that student-athletes, their family or friends cannot receive benefits or loans from agents. Additionally, NCAA by-law 12.1.2.1.6 states that athletes cannot receive preferential treatment, benefits or services because of the individual's athletics reputation or skill or pay-back potential as a professional athlete, unless such treatment, benefits or services are specifically permitted under NCAA legislation.

The NCAA launched an investigation into Bush's eligibility in April after Yahoo! Sports reported that Bush's family had not paid rent after living for a year in a home owned by Michaels. A Pac-10 investigation followed.

If the NCAA rules that Bush received extra benefits during his playing career at USC, he could be ruled retroactively ineligible. Since some of the benefits date back to the 2004 season, the Trojans' national championship that season could be rescinded. USC could face further NCAA sanctions and Bush's 2005 Heisman Trophy could be in jeopardy. The Heisman ballot indicates that an athlete must meet NCAA eligibility requirements to be considered for college football's most prestigious award.

Yahoo! Sports was denied a request last week to interview USC coach Pete Carroll, running backs coach Todd McNair and athletic director Mike Garrett.

The university instead released a statement though its counsel.

"USC cannot comment on any matter that is the subject of an ongoing NCAA and Pac-10 investigation," university counsel Kelly Bendell said. "USC continues to cooperate fully with the investigation."

Citing policy of not discussing ongoing investigations, NCAA officials declined to comment on the Bush matter.

Following the Trojans' loss to the University of Texas in the national championship game in January 2006, Bush turned professional. He hired Ornstein as his marketing agent, leaving a string of spurned would-be business representatives who claim Bush and his family owes them money. In April, Bush was drafted second overall by the Saints and he later signed a six-year contract guaranteeing him $26.3 million. Ornstein has since helped arrange marketing deals for Bush worth approximately $50 million.

The potential problem for USC goes beyond the trail of money to Bush. The Trojan program could be found by the NCAA to have failed to exert proper institutional control.

Sources told Yahoo! Sports that representatives of New Era were allowed into the USC locker room during the 2005 season. Ornstein and other agents frequented the USC sidelines during several games and numerous practices that season, according to published reports.

Also, McNair allegedly knew of Bush's involvement with the New Era venture before last season's national championship game against Texas, according to two sources. And at one point during the 2005 season, sources say Bush thought that Carroll knew about his parent's living arrangement and feared he was going to conduct his own investigation. Bush called Michaels, instructing that if Carroll called regarding the house to "tell him that you're a longtime family friend." Carroll never called Michaels.

In April, the Bush camp attempted to distance the running back from a direct relationship with Michaels.

"I know for a fact that everything is fine and this is all blown out of proportion and there's more to the story than is being told right now," Bush said April 27 at a predraft meeting with reporters in New York.

But when Bush stayed at the Venetian almost one year earlier, he signed for room charges that were paid for on Michaels' credit card. Another document related to that stay was filled out by Michaels, authorizing the hotel to charge Bush's stay to one of Michaels' credit cards. Yahoo! Sports obtained copies of both documents.

Earlier in March 2005, Bush stayed for two days at the Manchester Hyatt on the downtown San Diego waterfront, according to a document, a hotel front-desk employee and another source. Charges for the room were paid for on Michaels' credit card. The dates of the stay coincided with Bush attending a birthday party for former NFL and San Diego State star Marshall Faulk.

THE FAMILY ALLOWANCE

For Bush's family, the makeover, suits and limousine for the Heisman ceremony were a small part of the benefits they allegedly received.

DeMartino said that on the weekend of the Heisman ceremony in New York, three weeks before USC faced Texas in the BCS championship, Ornstein borrowed $500 from him to help make an "allowance" payment to Bush's family. DeMartino, who has known Ornstein for about 20 years, said he was at the family's hotel in New York to meet with them about a memorabilia proposal that he had submitted to Ornstein in November.

"We were standing around waiting for the family to show up," DeMartino said, recalling the Dec. 9 meeting. "Mike says to me, ‘(Expletive), it's pay day.' He looked in his wallet, said he was a little short and asked me if he could borrow some money till the next day so he could give the family their money."

DeMartino said Ornstein explained to him that Bush's stepfather received a weekly payment of $1,000. Bush's mother received $500 and Bush's younger brother also received money.

"I'm not going to lie for the guy (Ornstein). You asked me a question, I'm going to tell you the truth," said DeMartino, who received payment after settling a financial dispute with Ornstein last week. The day after settling, DeMartino told Yahoo! Sports that he stood by his statements regarding his interaction with Ornstein in New York.

"That is a 100-percent lie," Ornstein said in a phone interview last week. "That never happened. I swear on my son, I swear on my mother, I swear on my brother. … I swear on my whole family. Let them all die tomorrow if I'm telling a lie."

Repeated attempts to reach LaMar and Denise Griffin by phone for comment were unsuccessful.

New Era's Lake, interviewed by Yahoo! Sports at the South Bay Detention Center in Chula Vista, Calif., on Aug. 27, said he was told by Bush that Ornstein was paying the running back.

Asked why DeMartino would say Ornstein was giving Bush and his family benefits, Ornstein said it was an act of vengeance after Ornstein didn't sign DeMartino as Bush's memorabilia agent. DeMartino claims he was the one who backed out of the deal, because Ornstein was asking for too much money. Asked how Bush's family was able to afford travel to USC road games last season and live in a 3,000-square-foot house belonging to a New Era Sports representative, Ornstein said he had "no idea."

"I'm not involved with that," Ornstein said. "I wasn't involved with the family at that point.

"If (Reggie's step) father did something wrong six months ago, eight months ago, that's not a story to me. … Did Michael Michaels do something like that with them? He may have, but Mr. Griffin is living in San Diego and Reggie is up in L.A., so how would he know?

"If you ask me, Mike Ornstein, I'd say 100-percent Reggie never took anything."

Ornstein said starting in November 2005, he advised the family on some issues and recommended agents but gave the family nothing of value until after signing Bush.

"And I haven't really given them anything since I signed Reggie," Ornstein said. "Reggie's been taking care of his family. On a couple of occasions, Reggie's (step)father borrowed money and he paid me back afterwards.''

Ornstein is the former director of club marketing for NFL Properties who in 1995 pled guilty to one count of mail fraud for his actions in an attempt to defraud the league. Ornstein was sentenced to five years probation, four months of home confinement and had to make $160,000 restitution to the league for the crime, according to published reports.

As a followup to their meeting in New York, DeMartino said that Ornstein solicited via email a $500,000 down payment for a prospective memorabilia deal. The email is dated Dec. 29, five days before Bush played in his last college football game and within two weeks of signing a contract to be represented by Ornstein.

Ornstein acknowledges that he negotiated in principle numerous marketing deals on behalf of Bush during the 2005 season. NCAA rule 12.3.1.2 reads in part "an individual shall be ineligible … if any person who represents any individual in the marketing of his or her athletic ability."

Ornstein contends that he operated within the NCAA rules, since no deal was finalized until after the season.

"All of that was based on only if I got [Bush] as client," Ornstein told reporters at the NFL Draft in April. "It was only going to be if and when I signed him. No deal was ever consummated until Reggie signed with me after the season."

At the same time Bush's family was allegedly receiving money from Ornstein, they continued to take gifts and benefits from Michaels as well, according to two sources. Michaels bought them expensive dinners and took them on shopping trips, the sources said. And the family continued to live in Michaels' home, without paying rent, until April.

Bush asserted in April that he and his family did nothing improper after news of his parents' living arrangements surfaced on the eve of the NFL Draft.

"When this is all said and done, everybody will see at the end of the day that we've done nothing – absolutely nothing wrong," Bush said during an interview with ESPN on April 24.

Bush's family was eventually evicted from the home in Spring Valley after failing to pay approximately $54,000 agreed to in a lease with Michaels. A source said the family also promised to buy the home from Michaels at one point. It's now up for sale. When the family moved out, Michaels said they also took approximately $12,000 worth of furniture purchased by Michaels.

GROUND TRANSPORTATION

Beyond the house and other payments, sources say New Era Sports paid for a pristine, black-on-black 1996 Chevrolet Impala SS for Bush.

Although the car was almost 10 years old, the model is popular for a number of stylistic reasons. First off, the car, which features a small block, V-8 engine, is particularly fast. Second, it boasted a frame fitted for wide, speed-rated tires, which allows it to be detailed with large rims. Sources say that after Bush took control of the car early in 2005 it was decked out with such rims and an expensive stereo system was installed.

The car was allegedly purchased for Bush. Sources say it was bought in the Los Angeles area.

Bush is also seen sitting on the hood of a car fitting that description in a full-page photo in the June/July issue of DUB Magazine, which is dedicated to high-performance and detailed cars. It regularly features pictures and articles about athletes and their automobiles.

THE GREAT DIVIDE

Bush, his family and attorney David Cornwell have been in on-again, off-again settlement discussions with Michaels and Lake since January. At one point early in the negotiations, Cornwell offered Michaels and attorney Brian Watkins, who represented Michaels at the time and still represents Lake, $100,000 to settle the matter, a source said.

The offer was turned down and Watkins countered by saying that Michaels and Watkins lost more than $300,000 in money advanced to Bush and his family and in start-up costs for the company. Watkins also sent Cornwell a letter saying he would file a lawsuit against Bush for upwards of $3.2 million in damages.

Cornwell denied that he had ever made an offer to settle. He was asked to comment about the hotel receipts linking Bush and New Era's Michaels.

"With respect to the receipt, I have one question: Did it total $3.2 million?" Cornwell said Sept. 7. "Beyond that, I will not comment on documents I have not seen."

Cornwell, who represents both Bush and Ornstein, declined to comment when reached Wednesday night about the alleged benefits provided by Ornstein.

Both Michaels and Lake had no known history as agents prior to being involved with Bush and starting New Era. They said they plan to sue and did not want to discuss specifics of the case. However, there was no denying their sense of betrayal.

"I'm still trying to figure out how (he) and his family are trying to leave me out to the wolves like they did," Michaels said Aug. 16 as he sat in his living room in El Cajon, Calif. "The truth will come out someday."

Meanwhile, USC and Bush are moving on.

The Trojans, currently ranked fourth in the Associated Press poll, opened the season with a 50-14 victory at Arkansas. In the offseason, the athletic department took extra steps to educate players and their families about NCAA rules compliance. According to a story in the Los Angeles Times, parents were required sign a statement acknowledging that they had been informed of the rules.

"We've always talked about the stuff, this time we gave them a little handy handout," Carroll said of the parents in The Times. "I know that even without doing anything, their awareness is elevated."

Bush began his NFL career last Sunday against the Cleveland Browns, accounting for 141 yards total offense. He has already ingratiated himself to the battered New Orleans community with a series of charitable donations. Season tickets sales set a record for the Saints, who are scheduled to play their first game in New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina on Sept. 25.

greenie
09-16-06, 02:43 PM
I don't think that's on SC at all, but I understand that some may disagree. You can't expect a college to track the finances of a player's family - that's absurd.

And also, those violations - specific to the player - are also pretty weak IMO even at face value.

I doubt highly that anything will come of it concerning SC.

ferrarigod
09-16-06, 02:52 PM
hopefully nebraska beats usc today. how sweet would that be.:D

About reggie and all this, who cares. It goes on everywhere, on every team. Anyone who denies that lives in a dreamworld. I can give specific unpublished instances at UF from knowledge from players and boosters. A non-issue with me. The ncaa is the issue, imo.

jcollins28
09-16-06, 02:56 PM
I don't think that's on SC at all, but I understand that some may disagree. You can't expect a college to track the finances of a player's family - that's absurd.

And also, those violations - specific to the player - are also pretty weak IMO even at face value.

I doubt highly that anything will come of it concerning SC.

They could force USC to forfeit games, he played in. That happened to Alabama back in the early 90s (I believe '93 right after they won the NC) with the Antonio Langham incident. The NCAA made Alabama give up a whole season's worth of games, or something along those lines. the problem here is that this situation is so public, so extreme, that if the NCAA wants to uphold any perception that they have an ounce of integrity, they have to bring the hammer down (if not it will look like the NCAA plays favorites and doesnt hold every program under the same set of rules). Sucks for USC, but their coaches and compliance department brought this upon themselves by ignoring the signs. This is gonna blow up.

devilmaster
09-16-06, 03:01 PM
The ncaa is the issue, imo.


Absolutely. But Wetz, and at another forum, people feel that the draconian rules don't need to be discussed with this topic. I, otoh, think that these are the times the NCAA rules should be looked at.

Nobody wants to talk about it when everything is going well or hunky dory. Its times like these that should fuel the debate of 'student-athletes' and how they are more or less forced to live in official poverty because of the rules.

greenie
09-16-06, 03:12 PM
They could force USC to forfeit games, he played in.

I suppose that is possible, but I still think it is unlikely based on the facts presented.

It would really suck if he got the Heisman ripped - particularly since the Juice is still a member of that exclusive fraternity. :gomer:

Ankf00
09-16-06, 03:14 PM
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11014&page=17



:gomer:

Sean O'Gorman
09-16-06, 10:32 PM
Actually, this works out great, if USC has to forfeit last year's games then coolhand can say that technically Texas never beat them :gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

nrc
09-16-06, 11:54 PM
Please quote a portion of the the story and link the rest.

It's gotta suck to be busted by a Yahoo sports investigation. But this is just another case of a national championship putting a team under the microscope. :gomer:

extramundane
09-17-06, 12:10 AM
Y'see, this kind of nonsense is why I attended an institution which produced such upstanding gentlemen as The Mexico Brothers, Jim Druckenmiller (http://www.behindthenet.org/archives/000050.php), and various others (http://www.vtmagazine.vt.edu/winter97/sports.html#football).

JoeBob
09-17-06, 12:30 AM
http://www.mgoblue.com/images/football/06-07/und/64.jpg

Ankf00
09-17-06, 12:36 AM
HAIL HAIL TO MICHIGAN, THE CHAMPIONS OF THE WORLD!!!


:thumbup: :D



Y'see, this kind of nonsense is why I attended an institution which produced such upstanding gentlemen as The Mexico Brothers, Jim Druckenmiller, and various others. heh, we just like to toke down in Hill Country :D

Ankf00
09-17-06, 12:42 AM
Hey, has OJ found the real killer yet?

coolhand
09-17-06, 12:42 AM
Hey, has OJ found the real killer yet?

Have you got over your preoccupation with USC yet? :tony:

Should I look for Texas palyers to buy Pot?

Ankf00
09-17-06, 12:43 AM
Sure thing man. But I bet you get fresher stuff across the street in Watts.

nrc
09-17-06, 12:51 AM
Funny, back in the spring UCLA fans were calling Wetzel Trash and not a journalist
=========================
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-uclalegacy040206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

INDIANAPOLIS – UCLA has the greatest, grandest tradition in college basketball: 11 national championships, 34 first-team All-America selections, an 88-game win streak and on and on. All run by perhaps the most wonderful gentleman the game has ever known, John Wooden.


Again: Please quote a portion of the the story and link the rest.

coolhand
09-17-06, 03:43 AM
That is fair NRC, why not do the same for the OP?

coolhand
09-17-06, 03:43 AM
You did not have to delete it either i would have edited it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-uclalegacy040206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Dan Wetzel playing woodward and bernstien in college athletics.

what does jcollins think of this article?

nrc
09-17-06, 10:02 AM
That is fair NRC, why not do the same for the OP?Because the original poster didn't ignore a clear request posted in bold in this very thread.

ferrarigod
09-17-06, 12:58 PM
Sure thing man. But I bet you get fresher stuff across the street in Watts.

Compton Community College. hhahaha.

I was happy with every game yesterday. And also even found a time to laugh in the drubbing of Nebraska. When they showed the National Championships, they slowly scrolled across, soon it read 1978 and then 2003, 2004. :D

I don't know about you, but I think LSU has something to say about actually winning what has been prescribed as THE national championship indicator.

USC = Notre Dame. ESPeN hype and idiocy galore. The worst part is they believe their own hype from 2003. Fans believing is one form of idiocy, the athletic director believing is just 100x's more pathetic.

jcollins28
09-17-06, 02:42 PM
You did not have to delete it either i would have edited it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=dw-uclalegacy040206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Dan Wetzel playing woodward and bernstien in college athletics.

what does jcollins think of this article?

What do I think of someone going after John Wooden? I think it is pretty tacky that is what I think. Come with some proof that John Wooden ever did anything wrong then talk to me other wise it is just sour grapes.

coolhand
09-17-06, 03:14 PM
What do I think of someone going after John Wooden? I think it is pretty tacky that is what I think. Come with some proof that John Wooden ever did anything wrong then talk to me other wise it is just sour grapes.

Come with proof of the USC allegations and that the school knew about it.

You don't have anything to gloat about here.

Yahoo bashes UCLA you say they have no proof

Yahoo bashes USC and USC is "chicken little"? haha :tony:

Ankf00
09-17-06, 03:23 PM
Compton Community College. hhahaha.

I was happy with every game yesterday. And also even found a time to laugh in the drubbing of Nebraska. When they showed the National Championships, they slowly scrolled across, soon it read 1978 and then 2003, 2004. :D

I don't know about you, but I think LSU has something to say about actually winning what has been prescribed as THE national championship indicator.

USC = Notre Dame. ESPeN hype and idiocy galore. The worst part is they believe their own hype from 2003. Fans believing is one form of idiocy, the athletic director believing is just 100x's more pathetic.

personally I love the championship from 1939 they decided to recognize back in 2004. 65 years later they decided "hey, despite the fact we weren't undefeated and the major polls all gave A&M their one and only national championship, some purdue math professor's computations said we're #1, so we'll accept it..."

Ankf00
09-17-06, 03:35 PM
Yahoo bashes USC and USC is "chicken little"? haha :tony:

since when is "bashing" defined as a detailed catalogue of events? I believe "exposed" would be the better word here, and if Coach McNair knew about it, prepare to burn.

U$C. Where Champion$hip$ Re$ult.

Dave99
09-17-06, 03:35 PM
Hey Collins, here's some equal time for your beloved bruins. :)


http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?ID=35305

jcollins28
09-17-06, 03:46 PM
Come with proof of the USC allegations and that the school knew about it.

You don't have anything to gloat about here.

Yahoo bashes UCLA you say they have no proof

Yahoo bashes USC and USC is "chicken little"? haha :tony:

Time will tell but when USC and Pete Carroll let the likes of New Era and all those other agents full access to the locker room and everything else it sure did open themselves up for this type of scrutiny. That is not bashing that is called exposing. Then again USC was never known as a good school for journalism.

jcollins28
09-17-06, 03:50 PM
Hey Collins, here's some equal time for your beloved bruins. :)


http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/articles.asp?ID=35305


Dec 12th 2005 wow back to the future we go. Hmm how many threads can we make on the many, many, many different arrest on USC hooligans in the past 12 months? Do we really want to go there? I mean really?

ferrarigod
09-17-06, 04:11 PM
personally I love the championship from 1939 they decided to recognize back in 2004. 65 years later they decided "hey, despite the fact we weren't undefeated and the major polls all gave A&M their one and only national championship, some purdue math professor's computations said we're #1, so we'll accept it..."

dood, i forgot about that. i remember hearing that, and thinking, what a bunch of toolbags. THat was just after they claimed the 2003 one also. I thought the BCS was supposed to prove 1 champion, and 65 years is a bit of a span to claim one.

I gotta go look stuff up, I'll brb.:D

ferrarigod
09-17-06, 05:19 PM
"There was a strong calling around here to claim another national championship," said USC Sports Communication Director Tim Tessalone.

"We found that there were six other years where USC could claim a portion of the national championship, and we decided after some significant research to claim 1939 as one of our 10 titles."

http://media.www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper657/news/2004/08/03/News/Usc-Hopes.To.Share.1939.Championship.Title-697106.shtml?sourcedomain=www.thebatt.com&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com

What a joke USC is. They claimed the 2003 when by written agreement of their team, they did not win. And then a few months later they go back to the 1939's to steal one from Texas A&M. Cornell got more votes that year with 2, and I don't believe they are claiming it.

They also got votes in 2002, if they try to claim a split with OSU, I'll freak out.

West Coast media bias in football is sickening. Between that and Notre Dame tv, woops, I mean ESPeN, I just want to beat the hell out of someone.

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html

coolhand
09-17-06, 11:03 PM
Time will tell but when USC and Pete Carroll let the likes of New Era and all those other agents full access to the locker room and everything else it sure did open themselves up for this type of scrutiny. That is not bashing that is called exposing. Then again USC was never known as a good school for journalism.

That is part of it I know is NOT TRUE, there have been countless articles written on USC coaches kicking Agents out of heritage hall.

You would believe anything negative about USC, yet when the same people trash UCLA you people denouce them as a "garbage news service". They have not proven anything. If you want to denouce USC football in this case here you have to admit it is just as dirty as UCLA basketball`:rofl:

@ferrari god

The BCS even says USC where champions in 2003, check their website. I also guess the AP championship means nothing to you :tony:

ferrarigod
09-17-06, 11:17 PM
The BCS even says USC where champions in 2003, check their website. I also guess the AP championship means nothing to you :tony:

Considering Universities decided to go with the BCS, no, AP means nothing to me. BCS commission just realized how poor it was to decide Oklahomo and felt bad, and media pressures. I may not like the BCS system, but it is supposed to stop these issues. USC didn't win in 1939, and they didn't win 74 years later either.

greenie
09-17-06, 11:24 PM
West Coast media bias in football is sickening.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


That's a first. :gomer:

ferrarigod
09-17-06, 11:28 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


That's a first. :gomer:

pay attention to ESPeN and all the idiot shows they have had until this year talking about USC?

greenie
09-17-06, 11:30 PM
pay attention to ESPeN and all the idiot shows they have had until this year talking about USC?


Pay attention to reality - and years of history that make your statement silly.

Everyone hates a front runner - whatever.

Saying there's a west coast bias because USC is putting out badass team after badass team is ridiculous.

coolhand
09-17-06, 11:35 PM
Considering Universities decided to go with the BCS, no, AP means nothing to me. BCS commission just realized how poor it was to decide Oklahomo and felt bad, and media pressures. I may not like the BCS system, but it is supposed to stop these issues. USC didn't win in 1939, and they didn't win 74 years later either.

Tell that to the powers that grant the National championships, your school signed on to them too.

"don't hate the player hate the game"

coolhand
09-17-06, 11:36 PM
pay attention to ESPeN and all the idiot shows they have had until this year talking about USC?

LOL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Tell that to every other school West of the Rockies

ferrarigod
09-17-06, 11:56 PM
Pay attention to reality - and years of history that make your statement silly.

Everyone hates a front runner - whatever.

Saying there's a west coast bias because USC is putting out badass team after badass team is ridiculous.

Matt Leinart shouldn't have won the Heisman in 2004. Reggie shouldn't have won in 2005.

The media gave Matt a trophy he didn't deserve when Reggie was best in 2004, and then as pennance they gave the trophy to Reggie in 2005 when Vince Young deserved it.

After the beating in the Rose Bowl, and all during the run-up to the OSU/ND Fiesta Bowl, everyone could tell ESPeN was getting ready to change over to ND. And guess what, there they are pimping someone else.

The teams aren't the problems, the advantages they get from the media, and believe them, are the problems. ESPeN has ruined every sport, you have to agree. The CART fiasco has much tied up in this also. As does hockey, and bascially any sport on Entertainment and Sports Netork in the last 10 years.

ferrarigod
09-18-06, 12:15 AM
Wanna see some USC media bias? Don't believe Reggie should have won in 2004 and Vince in 2005?

Of all the years when 1 individual deserved the award, instead of a team award, the media won, and got Reggie the Heisman they screwed up on in '04.

Go do an archive search on ESPeN.com and look through the videos comparing USC '05 to Nebraska '95, FSU '99, OSU '02, and many others.

All of the idiots in Bristol were getting pieces prepared for Sportscenter to talk about how USC stacked up against the best teams, when they hadn't even beat Texas yet. I didn't see a show with Texas comparisons, and you also didn't see coverage anywhere near rivialing Texas victory as your did the dynasty of a 3-peat for USC. what a joke. Go research, then tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

As seen 1500 feet from USC campus:
http://onepeat.com/losbilla.jpg

As seen driving around the ESPeN headquarters.
http://onepeat.com/onepeat_espn_a.jpg

greenie
09-18-06, 12:22 AM
The media gave Matt a trophy he didn't deserve when Reggie was best in 2004,

Reggie got screwed by that West Coast bias. :tony:

The Heisman is a crock to begin with - you'd have a great point bitching about Jason White (OK), Danny Wuerffel (FL State), Charlie Ward (FL State), etc. I don't recall them being from the West Coast.

True SC has three recent winners. You gonna bitch about Carson Palmer? :gomer:

You already concede that an SC player deserved it when Leinhart won.

What is your point, besides bitterness?

I don't think that you have a rational view of this, but it's all opinions so whatever.

I do agree though that CART was shafted by ESPN and ABC - awful coverage and it's funny that earl's now on the receiving end of that - particulary for their fans - all dozens of those fat losers or so.

ferrarigod
09-18-06, 12:39 AM
Reggie got screwed by that West Coast bias. :tony:

The Heisman is a crock to begin with - you'd have a great point bitching about Jason White (OK), Danny Wuerffel (FL State), Charlie Ward (FL State), etc. I don't recall them being from the West Coast.

True SC has three recent winners. You gonna bitch about Carson Palmer? :gomer:

You already concede that an SC player deserved it when Leinhart won.

What is your point, besides bitterness?

I don't think that you have a rational view of this, but it's all opinions so whatever.


Reggie got screwed. Lienart never deserved one. Jason White didn't deserve one, Wuerffel didn't either. They were all products of the system. Charlie Ward did deserved one, without a doubt.

Reggie broke the mold in '04, Vince in '05. Both should have won.

Perhaps Tommy Frazer should have won in '95, but he was a product, and Eddie George was the best single player. IMO, of course.



I do agree though that CART was shafted by ESPN and ABC - awful coverage and it's funny that earl's now on the receiving end of that - particulary for their fans - all dozens of those fat losers or so.

CART isn't the only thing. As I said hockey was destroyed with NHL 2night getting pulled. RPM 2night is another example. And for what? Spelling bee's, poker, domino's, pool, bowling, lacrosse and womens basketball and softball?

ESPeN is the problem. They are the one issue that ties this all together. From USC to ND to Heisman problems. It isn't about sports, it is about marketing, and schlitty marketing at that.

Even my mother noticed they were doing Emergency Score break in's during the Ohio State game to show that ND got scored on by Ga Tech. I mean, seriously, that is pathetic when my mother, and other of her friends are beginning to notice what goes on.

coolhand
09-18-06, 12:58 AM
FG, do you think that we have not all gone over this argument before, with much more informed people? :shakehead

You think the last 6-10 heimans winners did not deserve one? :laugh: It is a subject award, it is all about publicity. The players that win it though are not weak.

some redneck LSU fans god torn apart by most of the country for wasting money on a billboard facing away from campus where no SC people go. Hell two members of this board claim to have wasted their money for a one week cheap board positioning. USC is co-champs in '03, stop being jelous and deal with it. Hell how about you go and win your own.

ferrarigod
09-18-06, 01:14 AM
FG, do you think that we have not all gone over this argument before, with much more informed people? :shakehead

Much more informed? WTF does that mean? I beg you to argue with me about how USC didn't buy into its own media hype.


USC is co-champs in '03, stop being jelous and deal with it. Hell how about you go and win your own.

How about USC fans stop being jealous of not being choosen to attend the one and ONLY bowl game that is given out to a system THEY signed on with.

Stop being poor losers, and accept your One-Peat. You don't see me claiming OSU '98 when we got votes, and I don't see FSU claiming '96 when they got votes.

OJ find Nicoles killer yet? I heard the person was on a golf course in Florida.

coolhand
09-18-06, 01:57 AM
Much more informed? WTF does that mean? I beg you to argue with me about how USC didn't buy into its own media hype.

Informed, CFB fans that know what they are talking about.


How about USC fans stop being jealous of not being choosen to attend the one and ONLY bowl game that is given out to a system THEY signed on with.

They were #1 in both Human polls, nothing to be self-jealous about. I don't need to convince you about anything. Talk to the BCS and AP about the title, they are the authorities on the matter.


Stop being poor losers, and accept your One-Peat. You don't see me claiming OSU '98 when we got votes, and I don't see FSU claiming '96 when they got votes.

Votes is different then being offically reconized as champs.


OJ find Nicoles killer yet? I heard the person was on a golf course in Florida.

You really have nothing new or good to say.

FACT: USC are the 2003 national champs, I don't need to debate it with you.

ferrarigod
09-18-06, 09:32 AM
Votes is different then being offically reconized as champs.



OSU got votes by media publications in '98, as did FSU. Just like AP voted USC #1 in '03.

You have a good team, just stop trying to claim history that clearly doesn't belong to you. Everyone agreed to the BCS, now live with it.



FACT: USC are the 2003 national champs, I don't need to debate it with you.

FACT: USC did not win the BCS Championship, which is the agreed to format for college football. Over time their 2003 season will be nothing more than a blip on the radar.

Ankf00
09-18-06, 09:53 AM
2005 USC vs. the Jedi Council.


My $$$'s on USC.


:gomer:


2005 USC. Greatest team in the history of EVERYTHING!!!

ferrarigod
09-18-06, 11:16 AM
2005 USC vs. the Jedi Council.


My $$$'s on USC.


:gomer:


2005 USC. Greatest team in the history of EVERYTHING!!!

Dikta vs. USC?

USC 92-6:D

Ed_Severson
09-18-06, 11:26 AM
Dikta vs. USC?

USC 92-6:D

Is that Ditka or Mini-Ditka?

Ankf00
09-18-06, 11:44 AM
Mini-Ditkas vs. USC's offense, led by THE CHILD OF ZEUS, WHOSE NAME IS UNFIT FOR MERE MORTALS TO UTTER and the year before last's THE CHILD OF ZEUS, WHOSE NAME IS UNFIT FOR MERE MORTALS TO UTTER who can pile the points on anyone. Just look at what they did to Nebraska & Arkansas. Arkansas is from the SEC. That means they have 'roid pumped studs on the roster and are destroyer of worlds!! (oh, no? only USC had players on 'roids last year? ok...). And Nebraska, well this is the team that scored 52 points on Nicholls State. NICHOLLS STATE PEOPLE!!! Plus, Larry the Cable Guy has a luxury suite in Lincoln and probably attends most of their games.

In short Mini-Ditkas, a team composed of miniature fat old men and some other people, has no chance against the unstoppable might of USC.

Of course, that would have to change if USC fails to beat the nearly unstoppable juggernaut that is whichever team they have a close game against next.

ferrarigod
09-18-06, 02:21 PM
Who wins the game between USC's '03 National Championship team vs. USC's '04 Championship team?

Winner of that braket takes on the 2005 Champion of the World USC team.