View Full Version : Red Bull, Klein to CCWS?
Spicoli
08-10-06, 09:27 AM
3 years late, but maybe i was right? :laugh:
F1racing.net
lFormula One is most likely going to say goodbye to Christian Klien at the end of the season. Mark Webber will replace the Austrian Red Bull driver next season and now Red Bull has made Klien an offer to race in the American Champ Car series.
"We made Klien an offer to race in Champ Car and there is also an alternative to race in the DTM series. He has two weeks to think about it," Red Bull motorsport director Helmut Marko told Austrian newspaper Salzburger Nachrichten. "The door to Formula 1 is still open for Klien but only after he has shown what he can do in Champ Car."
For Marko the reason of Klien's departure is clear. "At the start of the season Klien was given one target: beat David Coulthard. He was not able to do it neither in the races nor in the free practice sessions. He had a good first season but he was unable to develop himself."
I don't understand why they don't throw some more money at AJ. Perhaps too late for this year but next year.
AJ doesn't need it and Klien is a passion project for either Helmut Marko or Dieter Mateschitz (I think Marko).
Tony George
08-10-06, 11:47 AM
3 years late, but maybe i was right? :laugh:
More accurate than a Wilke prediction. :gomer:
Red Bull motorsport director Helmut Marko told Austrian newspaper Salzburger Nachrichten[:] "The door to Formula 1 is still open for Klien but only after he has shown what he can do in Champ Car."
Herr Doktor's estimation of Champ Car must be rising.
Klein still wants to race F1 and he's been pretty much directed that the road back to F1 goes through Champ Car, not DTM. Makes you want to say hmmmmm...
He's better off going to champcar if he wants to go back to F1. Once you go to tin-tops after F1, it's hard to come back. It would be good for the CCWS if Klein shows up with Red Bull. Red Bull always goes all out with marketing and Klein is a good talent. :thumbup:
jonovision_man
08-10-06, 03:42 PM
He's better off going to champcar if he wants to go back to F1.
Better than DTM, yes.
But I don't see CC as a good way to get to F1 anymore. If he can win, and win often, maybe. But if he comes to CC and gets thumped by Bourdais, PT, 'dinger, Wilson, etc race in and race out, it's tough to see F1 giving him another chance.
Probably his best chance to get back into F1 is testing in F1.
jono
cameraman
08-10-06, 03:47 PM
You are missing the fundamental point that Red Bull said "go to Champ Car" not "go test drive in F1".
There are no Friday test rides next year. An F1 test gig next year for Midland or worse won't get you much of anything.
You are missing the fundamental point that Red Bull said "go to Champ Car" not "go test drive in F1".
There are no Friday test rides next year. An F1 test gig next year for Midland or worse won't get you much of anything.
Besides, if Red Bull spend money so Klein can drive race cars, they'd might as well tap a new market. How many Red Bull cars can there be on the F1 grid, or worse, Jerez private testing?
How would a DTM budget compare to a Champ Car budget? Could Red Bull be trying to saving a buck?
jonovision_man
08-10-06, 07:24 PM
You are missing the fundamental point that Red Bull said "go to Champ Car" not "go test drive in F1".
There are no Friday test rides next year. An F1 test gig next year for Midland or worse won't get you much of anything.
Except a shot at a Midland ride... which is still F1 and a gateway to better teams on the grid. Look at Nick Heidfeld, went from Jordan (now Midland) and now he's at BMW, pretty sweet.
OTOH take a guy like Bourdais who came to ChampCar instead of taking an F1 test ride, he has been beating his head against a wall trying to get into F1 with nothing to show for it.
Bottom line - there are a lot of more drivers on the F1 grid who started out testing in F1 than there are ex-ChampCar drivers.
Besides, if Red Bull spend money so Klein can drive race cars, they'd might as well tap a new market. How many Red Bull cars can there be on the F1 grid, or worse, Jerez private testing?
I'd say they're tapped out a 4. :) Good move IMO, the grid is about to be at capacity (24 cars) and there were still several serious interested parties who wanted F1 teams. Buying Minardi was a stroke of genious, it's gotta be worth a mint now.
jono
TorontoWorker
08-10-06, 09:44 PM
You are missing the fundamental point that Red Bull said "go to Champ Car" not "go test drive in F1".
There are no Friday test rides next year. An F1 test gig next year for Midland or worse won't get you much of anything.
BINGO! The *pay* testing postions in F1 which lead almost no where other then back and forth to your suger daddies bank account are now a thing of the past for 07.
As far as F1 testing; most teams will get their regular drivers to step it up or get the normal tester to do more. The friday testing was a fraud that Bernie allowed in order for the poorer teams to make a buck and stay in the series. Lately we have seen all sorts of drivers who given their track record in lower series would never be noticed except for the bulge in their back pocket. Some wouldn't even rate a "Super" if it were not for the team promising that they wouldn't be allowed to race, just wank around scrubbing in sets of tires and allowing the tire guys to figure out if they wanted option A or B tires for the race. Much of the data from these so called Friday testers was giberish most teams have admitted now that the train has left the station. You can't throw a rookie with barely GP2 experiance, out onto a dusty track and expect anything other then watching the traction control data spike all over the place. Of course Bernie knew what he was doing - Fridays engines don't count towards the 2 race rules so the teams wouldn't be afraid to let these 3rd stringers loose. You have to wonder what the mileage on these motors was before they jumped in and gave it a go. On the Friday in Montreal they were blowning up and dumping all over. I guess a 100K per Friday doesn't buy too much anymore...
Now with Friday testing off the books - we may see these kid's budgets being spent over here in Champ Car. This is good news / bad news I suppose. We may get Zolt... Then again we might get a hot up and coming GP2 kid who *may* have some skill. In my mind however, it spells more growth and more exposure in Europe for Champ Car.
2007 is going to be interesting anyway you slice it!
IMO, I think Bordais, Wilson, Klein and Almendinger could be future forces to deal with in the CCWS. (FWIW)
extramundane
08-10-06, 10:03 PM
IMO, I think Bordais, Wilson, [...] and Almendinger could be future forces to deal with in the CCWS. (FWIW)
Way to go out on a limb there, dude.
jonovision_man
08-10-06, 10:18 PM
I think people are overestimating that Friday tester role.
Sure, it got you some extra exposure in front of the public. But the teams see all the testing anyway, it's not like they won't notice guys at Jerez or Paul Ricard. There's almost as much value to being a test driver in 2007 as now. It's not like pre-Friday-testing the guys weren't getting noticed, they were, and they were getting rides. And you're still the go-to driver in case of injury or underperformance by the regular drivers.
Failing that, there's also GP2, so many more drivers in F1 have come from F3000/GP2 than from ChampCar. And some of those guys do double duties, testing in F1 and driving GP2 at the same time. Pizzonia did that with F3000 and Williams testing duties.
The bottom line is that if Bourdais can't find a decent F1 ride then there is little hope for the rest of the ChampCar field that he's been beating for a few years now.
ChampCar is a great career for a driver who can't find an F1 ride, it's not a way to get to F1.
jono
Yeah, the days of Champcar being a viable step to F1 appear to be over for now. I think you really have to be racing in Europe in GP2 or a similar series to be in a position to get recognised and move into F1. By the time a driver is successful in Champcar, they are now seemingly considered over the hill compared to the next hot shot 20 year old in Europe.
Spicoli
08-11-06, 03:07 AM
IMO, I think Bordais, Wilson, Klein and Almendinger could be future forces to deal with in the CCWS. (FWIW)
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/shocked032.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)
No way!
ferrarigod
08-11-06, 05:09 AM
Way to go out on a limb there, dude.
He forgot Nelson.
Insomniac
08-11-06, 06:53 AM
Who cares about Klien. The bigger news is it looks like another team is planning to join CC! :thumbup:
jonovision_man
08-11-06, 09:12 AM
Who cares about Klien. The bigger news is it looks like another team is planning to join CC! :thumbup:
Would this be another team, or Red Bull sponsoring an existing team?
Either one is positive, obviously, but a new team would be even better.
jono
I think CCWS and DTM are pretty similar budget wise, $3-$6 XL depending on who your daddy/factory/actual sponsor is.
As long as Klien is staying hooked with Red Bull it doesn't matter where they send him he'll have a better shot at returning to F1 than anyone else because of his deal with Dieter.
Oh, apparently I was wrong about who his champion at Red Bull is,
"The fact that I will not be part of Red Bull Racing in 2007 shall not interfere with the very important relationship and past that I've shared with Dietrich Mateschitz" -Klien
Source of quote (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=127187)
Good to see they aren't breaking up. :p
Spicoli
08-11-06, 10:02 AM
I think CCWS and DTM are pretty similar budget wise, $3-$6 XL depending on who your daddy/factory/actual sponsor is.
As long as Klien is staying hooked with Red Bull it doesn't matter where they send him he'll have a better shot at returning to F1 than anyone else because of his deal with Dieter.
Oh, apparently I was wrong about who his champion at Red Bull is,
"The fact that I will not be part of Red Bull Racing in 2007 shall not interfere with the very important relationship and past that I've shared with Dietrich Mateschitz" -Klien
Source of quote (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=127187)
Good to see they aren't breaking up. :p
I think you are reading too much into it.
But I do think they will just saend him over here with a check, as opposed to funding/starting out a whole new team.
IMHO.
Insomniac
08-11-06, 11:56 AM
Would this be another team, or Red Bull sponsoring an existing team?
Either one is positive, obviously, but a new team would be even better.
jono
You know, I just assumed it would be a new team. Offering him a ride in CCWS without a team already being there let me jump to conclusions. :)
I think you are reading too much into it.
That Klien and Dieter are still dating or that they would bring him back to F1 if they saw fit?
Spicoli
08-11-06, 01:30 PM
That Klien and Dieter are still dating or that they would bring him back to F1 if they saw fit?
The dating thang.
pferrf1
08-11-06, 02:01 PM
......
Now with Friday testing off the books - we may see these kid's budgets being spent over here in Champ Car. This is good news / bad news I suppose. We may get Zolt... Then again we might get a hot up and coming GP2 kid who *may* have some skill. In my mind however, it spells more growth and more exposure in Europe for Champ Car.
I'm not sure that that is good for CCWS. If CCWS NEEDS these kids and their budgets to keep cars on the grid then that is a sad, but an evil necessity.
For the series to really gain traction and build a future, the driver roster needs to come from its own ladder series, or other north american ladder series, with guys whose sights are set on ChampCar, not F1. We need to replace the PTs, Jimmys, Tags, etc. with guys like Ranger, Sciuto, Ott, Hinch, Martinez, etc. ... not the Timo Glocks, Giorgio Pantano's etc. In anideal world you'd have a driver roster of approximatley 60%-40% or 70%-30% NA ladder drivers vs. European refugees.
The dating thang.
Twas merely a joke, come on Spikkly. ;)
Opposite Lock
08-11-06, 10:39 PM
psst: Don't look now, but I think Paul Stoddart is drinkin' tequila out on yer porch. This has to be a sign that he is starting a new team in CC.
jonovision_man
08-12-06, 09:09 AM
For the series to really gain traction and build a future, the driver roster needs to come from its own ladder series, or other north american ladder series, with guys whose sights are set on ChampCar, not F1. We need to replace the PTs, Jimmys, Tags, etc. with guys like Ranger, Sciuto, Ott, Hinch, Martinez, etc. ... not the Timo Glocks, Giorgio Pantano's etc. In anideal world you'd have a driver roster of approximatley 60%-40% or 70%-30% NA ladder drivers vs. European refugees.
What about the Bourdais and Wilson's?
I agree with you to a point, Atlantics has been doing the job lately, given us a lot of solid drivers.
I wouldn't want to lose the F1 refugees, though. GP2 draws from a huge pool of talent from the various F3's around the world, F1 just can't absorb all the excellent drivers who graduate from GP2. Might as well have that talent over here going head-to-head with the Atlantics grads.
If anything, watching someone like AJ go up against them and beat them only helps the image of what we've got on this side of the pond.
jono
cameraman
08-12-06, 01:36 PM
I don't give a damn where the drivers come from. All I care about is that they are good.
Someone on the interwebs sez Klein turned it down.
So far he has rejected the Champ Car offer,' Dr Marko was quoted as saying by Die Presse.
He explained: '(Christian) said he does not want to live in Indianapolis. But he has to be there, because the (Champ Car) is developed there.'
It is understood that if Klien issues a definitive 'no' to the offer at Monza, then the Champ Car ride could be given to Toro Rosso's tester Neel Jani.
http://www.homeofsport.com/f1/news/item.aspx?id=16779
coolhand
08-30-06, 02:19 AM
"does not want to live in Indianapolis"
:p
Sean O'Gorman
08-30-06, 07:04 AM
:rofl:
"does not want to live in Indianapolis"
:p
Obviously nobody has told him Hoosier girls are round heeled and more fun to tip than cows.
Spicoli
08-30-06, 09:27 AM
Obviously nobody has told him Hoosier girls are round heeled and more fun to tip than cows.
oh yeah (http://hoosierhotties.com/)
jonovision_man
08-30-06, 11:31 AM
How many cars are Red Bull going to end up sponsoring? :saywhat:
Yet another F1 refugee talking Champ Car. Getting to be a very long list.
http://www.f1technical.net/news/3834
Doornbos in F1, Champ Car or DTM in 2007?
The future of Robert Doornbos in F1 is not clear as hasn't been offered a new contract as test- and reserve driver with the Red Bull Racing Team and he doesn't have to hope for a spot with another team. For Doornbos are Champ Cars and DTM plan B and C, but he hopes to stay in F1 and to stay with Red Bull.
In other F1 refugee news...
Looks like Glock and Montagny will be testing F1 next year.
http://www.f1i.com/content/view/5049/1/
Glock to Williams, Montagny to Toyota?
Wednesday, 30 August 2006
Aug.29 (GMM) Team racer Nico Rosberg has responded to speculation that countryman and current GP2 driver Timo Glock could join him at the Williams-Toyota squad in 2007 as a test driver. ''Timo would be an ideal addition,'' the German 21-year-old was quoted as saying by 'Motorsport Aktuell' magazine. It is also reported on Tuesday that current Super Aguri 'Friday' driver Franck Montagny is expected to move to Toyota at the end of the year, to replace Brazil's possibly Renault-bound Ricardo Zonta.
jono
Rogue Leader
08-30-06, 06:34 PM
Neel Jani is a good driver I wouldn't mind seeing him get the seat. Klein is not bad, but if he doesnt want to be here, screw him...
Tifosi24
08-30-06, 08:23 PM
Neel Jani really impressed me in A1GP last season and I would rather see him than Klien. He isn't afraid to race and made some unbelieveable moves during the Malayisan round of the series.
Whoa! Spicoli, Melina is waiting for your call! :eek:
coolhand
08-30-06, 08:53 PM
oh yeah (http://hoosierhotties.com/)
there is somthing to brag about
"does not want to live in Indianapolis"
:pBif skeers him.
THats' wHot i thINk.
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