View Full Version : Report: No Ovals in ChampCar in 2007
Insomniac
07-11-06, 11:43 AM
Huge shame.
The casualties on the '07 schedule will be Milwaukee, Montreal and Monterrey, Mexico.
Without Milwaukee, Champ Car will have no ovals for the first time in its 28-year history.
"When open wheel fans show they want ovals back, then we'll go back to them," said Kevin Kalkhoven, co-owner of Champ Car. "The past few years have shown us that's NASCAR's domain."
Hard to say you want to see ChampCar on ovals when you're not racing at any.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/28414/
CHAMPCARS4EVER
07-11-06, 11:55 AM
Stoopid decision.
The team owners in Champ Car had a meeting last Saturday in Toronto and reportedly voted not to leave the month of May open for the Indianapolis 500 but race instead. This past May, they raced at Houston and Monterrey, Mexico.
Glad to read that. :thumbup:
"When open wheel fans show they want ovals back, then we'll go back to them," said Kevin Kalkhoven, co-owner of Champ Car. "The past few years have shown us that's NASCAR's domain."
I wonder what it will take to 'show' him? He is supposed to read crapwagon and the sentiment over there is pro oval.
I don't actually like ovals much but I have always liked the diversity concept. I think Champ Car will be less without the challenges of a couple ovals.
Fitti Fan
07-11-06, 12:04 PM
:(
Tifosi24
07-11-06, 12:09 PM
Terrible decision on canning Milwaukee, it was a really good race this year and the attendence and atmosphere seemed like the event was possibly heading for greener pastures, before the timed race of course. Leaving May open is a nice step, but giving the Milwaukee date to the IRL in exchange for their San Antonio street circuit doesn't seem like a winning proposition, oh well.
Dr. Corkski
07-11-06, 12:11 PM
WGAF about the racing. It's all about the beach volleyball. :thumbup:
I thought it was the IRL's Vision™, Duty, and Mission to subsidize forms of racing for which few fans actaually buy tickets to attend.
I wonder if the people running Milwaukee made the decision for them? Wasn't the contract up?
I wonder if the people running Milwaukee made the decision for them? Wasn't the contract up?
Yes, the contract is up. Tony George likes the smell of acquiring ex-CART/Champ Car dates in the morning. It smells like ¥en.
We'll all meet at Milwaukee the week after Indy in '08. :thumbup: Losing Bourdais and Danica to NASCAB will ice it! :gomer:
No ovals sucks. That's not the series that I became a fan of back in the day. But then, nothing is. :thumdown:
The good news is that that - street racing or not - the last few races have been very good and if it helps balance the books until Tony's family get's tired of funding his idiocy that's a good thing. Hopefully the DP01 will help salve the wound until a cure for FTG is found.
Given the crash-prone nature of some of our teenage superstars, ovals are too expensive to run, especially given the financial commitment teams are going to have to make to a new chassis next year. I'll bet that was on the minds of some of the owners.
In addition, ya gotta run where the people are, and I didn't see many people in the stands at Milwaukee last year when I was there.
Maybe in the future.
We'll all meet at Milwaukee the week after Indy in '08. :thumbup: Losing Bourdais and Danica to NASCAB will ice it! :gomer:
Don't hold your beath waiting for Tony George to figure it out.
Insomniac
07-11-06, 04:45 PM
No ovals sucks. That's not the series that I became a fan of back in the day. But then, nothing is. :thumdown:
The good news is that that - street racing or not - the last few races have been very good and if it helps balance the books until Tony's family get's tired of funding his idiocy that's a good thing. Hopefully the DP01 will help salve the wound until a cure for FTG is found.
I agree with you. It's also good to see some passing and knowing that you can design a street course that allows for it.
Insomniac
07-11-06, 04:46 PM
Given the crash-prone nature of some of our teenage superstars, ovals are too expensive to run, especially given the financial commitment teams are going to have to make to a new chassis next year. I'll bet that was on the minds of some of the owners.
In addition, ya gotta run where the people are, and I didn't see many people in the stands at Milwaukee last year when I was there.
Maybe in the future.
What about Cleveland? They made a huge mess of the cars. ;)
Opposite Lock
07-11-06, 05:00 PM
What about Cleveland? They made a huge mess of the cars. ;)
Speaking of Cleveland, didn't ___king Tony once suggest that they run an oval configuration there? Problem solved! :gomer:
:runs:
Speaking of Cleveland, didn't ___king Tony once suggest that they run an oval configuration there? Problem solved! :gomer:
:runs:
No race for you! :p
-Kevin
Speaking of Cleveland, didn't ___king Tony once suggest that they run an oval configuration there? Problem solved! :gomer:
Yup. Of course they hadn't actually checked with the FAA about doing any of the necessary work and I suspect that if it had survived it would have become a road course race. Classic TG bait and switch. Gomers buy it every time.
Fortunately the fans and the mayor said FTG.
Insomniac
07-11-06, 06:42 PM
Speaking of Cleveland, didn't ___king Tony once suggest that they run an oval configuration there? Problem solved! :gomer:
:runs:
So I vote for a track that circles a couple blocks in SA only turning left. That's four passing opportunities ;)
Al Czervik
07-11-06, 06:53 PM
No ovals sucks. That's not the series that I became a fan of back in the day. But then, nothing is. :thumdown:
The good news is that that - street racing or not - the last few races have been very good and if it helps balance the books until Tony's family get's tired of funding his idiocy that's a good thing. Hopefully the DP01 will help salve the wound until a cure for FTG is found.
Completely agree, but I don't think even Chuck Norris's tears could cure FTG.
Andrew Longman
07-11-06, 07:01 PM
As much as I am sad about this possibility I do not want ovals for ovals sake.
Milwaukee produced some good racing because it is flat, but Vegas never impressed me. Neither drew fans.
To me, I am happy to have a few short ovals on the schedule but only if a few other things are in place.
First, the schedule has to be otherwise pretty full. The oval weekends don't tend to lend themselves to a whole weekend of excitment and the races themselves are only 225 miles and are over in a hurry. They are fine for a few filler races but they also can reduce the buzz around the series.
Second, there has to be more cars. 24-26 cars minimum are needed to create the backmarkers needed to keep it interesting
Third the tracks must be flat and require the driver actually work
Fourth, they need a car design and wing package that promotes good racing
But what I really want is at least one and perhaps two big track challenges of at least 400 and preferably 500 miles. These are genuine tests of driver and car endurance and wicked fast speed and are part of what Champ cars are about. MIS and or CA would be perfect. Indy is good too. ;) The absolute speed and length is enough to create special interest and buzz and it is buzz well beyond whatever they can do at a place like Nashville.
What really stinks about losing Milwaukee is that TG gets the traditional week after Indy date for the CrapWagon league.
No ovals. :thumdown: At least keep Milwaukee.
grafddrx7
07-11-06, 09:41 PM
As much as I am sad about this possibility I do not want ovals for ovals sake.
Milwaukee produced some good racing because it is flat, but Vegas never impressed me. Neither drew fans.
To me, I am happy to have a few short ovals on the schedule but only if a few other things are in place.
First, the schedule has to be otherwise pretty full. The oval weekends don't tend to lend themselves to a whole weekend of excitment and the races themselves are only 225 miles and are over in a hurry. They are fine for a few filler races but they also can reduce the buzz around the series.
Second, there has to be more cars. 24-26 cars minimum are needed to create the backmarkers needed to keep it interesting
Third the tracks must be flat and require the driver actually work
Fourth, they need a car design and wing package that promotes good racing
But what I really want is at least one and perhaps two big track challenges of at least 400 and preferably 500 miles. These are genuine tests of driver and car endurance and wicked fast speed and are part of what Champ cars are about. MIS and or CA would be perfect. Indy is good too. ;) The absolute speed and length is enough to create special interest and buzz and it is buzz well beyond whatever they can do at a place like Nashville.
Gotta agree here. I hate to see Milwaukee disappear, (temporarily?) but the typical ISC-type mile-an-a-half does nothing for me. Even Cheever, as much as he annoys me anymore, called them "food-processor" racing.
I always kinda liked Gateway, because it was flat, thereby making it more important to have a car that could run high/low/middle. Plus, with widely different radii between turn 1-2 and 3-4 brought set-ups, gearing, shifting on the drivers part, etc. into play more than the typical oval.
Also, the typical 200-225 mile race on a short oval is way too short. Spend the bucks, make the drive, and the race is over in an hour and a half or so. Not worth it, to me. If they would run a 6-hour enduro at Milwaukee, I'd be there!!! :D
Really, I enjoy going to Eldora to watch the sprinters more than any other oval race, other than when I used to go to MIS every year.
Joelski
07-11-06, 09:43 PM
Screw the ovals, most of all, screw Indy. If the new car does one thing right, I hope it's to get the series back to roadies like MO, Barber, and Road Atlanta.
The current car is what destroyed the racing on ovals and I had hopes the new Elan would have gone a long way towards fixing that. A disappointing decision :(
Insomniac
07-12-06, 09:11 AM
Does this lend any credence to the rumors the DP01 wasn't designed or strong enough for ovals?
Does this lend any credence to the rumors the DP01 wasn't designed or strong enough for ovals?
With the merger discussions going on I find that hard to believe. And wasn't the source of this rumor gomerville?
FanofMario
07-12-06, 10:07 AM
IMO this is a terrible decision. Once again we are abandoning what Champcar has always been---a diverse series. Diversity is what made me a huge fan of OW. By dropping ovals we are throwing in the towel and giving FTG what he wants. Do we now become a niche sport of festivals and streets? Why do we continue to piss off the few fans the sport has???
It also is amazing how much we are staking on the DP01. Will it be fast? Will it generate passing? Were the Gomers right in saying it can't handle ovals? Sure seems like a lot is riding on an unproven design and concept. :saywhat:
As much as I like the fact that KK has taken the lead in resurrecting Champcar, this is a stupid decision. :shakehead
trauma1
07-12-06, 10:09 AM
that's wilkies line, as usual the gomer is lying his ass off again the dp01 is a generation ahead in safety features from both the lolas and dallaras, it excedes the f1 crash test so to it begining testinig soon ii presume it already passed the crash test, tg and the TF crowd is desprite and pounding this dp01 safety issue into the gound as unsafe because 2 to 3 earl owners have already ordered them
Andrew Longman
07-12-06, 10:44 AM
2 to 3 earl owners have already ordered them
Do tell
FanofMario
07-12-06, 10:55 AM
Do tell
Can we cite the teams or owners??
oddlycalm
07-12-06, 02:19 PM
Disappointing, but it's about current economic realities not the new chassis. It is intended to be better and safer for ovals, gomer oral flatulence aside. Ironically, it's the EARL sleds that have demonstrated their lack of safety for ovals, but then why bother with facts in a technical discussion.
oc
Andrew Longman
07-12-06, 02:23 PM
Also, if an alleged Atlantics team internet poster is to be believed the new Atlantics chassis are not insured (and henced budgeted) for oval racing.
That means that any ovals CC does run need different series to run support races. Not exactly consistent with the marketing strategy to promote new drivers and trams.
Not having any ovals sucks. There is no spin that makes that any easier to handle.
It sucks.
Also, if an alleged Atlantics team internet poster is to be believed the new Atlantics chassis are not insured (and henced budgeted) for oval racing.
That means that any ovals CC does run need different series to run support races. Not exactly consistent with the marketing strategy to promote new drivers and trams.
There were no plans to run them on ovals this year so why would they need insurance for them?
Andrew Longman
07-12-06, 02:46 PM
There were no plans to run them on ovals this year so why would they need insurance for them?
Chicken or egg? Star Mazda not Atlantics ran at Milwaukee. Was that because they didn't plan to run there or because they weren't insured for ovals?
Poster "Cosworth" on another forum claimed that Atlantics required all participants to buy insurance provided for them. That insurance did not, and presumably would not, cover ovals. Adding ovals would add cost not accounted for in the business plan.
Just reporting, Not claiming to know.
Insomniac
07-12-06, 02:51 PM
With the merger discussions going on I find that hard to believe. And wasn't the source of this rumor gomerville?
I'm not really sure where I saw that, for some reason I thought I saw it on SpeedTV.com (not that that makes it any better of a rumor).
I didn't really believe it, but just wondered. I guess we should wait and see how the merger talks go. If it's not going to happen and they are really done with ovals, might as well have a lighter chassis for road racing only.
Insomniac
07-12-06, 02:54 PM
IMO this is a terrible decision. Once again we are abandoning what Champcar has always been---a diverse series. Diversity is what made me a huge fan of OW. By dropping ovals we are throwing in the towel and giving FTG what he wants. Do we now become a niche sport of festivals and streets? Why do we continue to piss off the few fans the sport has???
It also is amazing how much we are staking on the DP01. Will it be fast? Will it generate passing? Were the Gomers right in saying it can't handle ovals? Sure seems like a lot is riding on an unproven design and concept. :saywhat:
As much as I like the fact that KK has taken the lead in resurrecting Champcar, this is a stupid decision. :shakehead
I think the diversity thing went out the window a while ago. 1 or 2 races out of 16 on an oval doesn't mean diverse. Maybe a little variety, but it needs to be more like 30-40% if you want to call it diverse.
Insomniac
07-12-06, 02:55 PM
that's wilkies line, as usual the gomer is lying his ass off again the dp01 is a generation ahead in safety features from both the lolas and dallaras, it excedes the f1 crash test so to it begining testinig soon ii presume it already passed the crash test, tg and the TF crowd is desprite and pounding this dp01 safety issue into the gound as unsafe because 2 to 3 earl owners have already ordered them
Just curious, but does exceeding F1 crash test requirements mean anything for how safe they are on ovals?
racer2c
07-12-06, 03:16 PM
Just curious, but does exceeding F1 crash test requirements mean anything for how safe they are on ovals?
Probably or I would doubt the FIA would allow them to do turn 13 at Indy.
trauma1
07-12-06, 03:58 PM
Just curious, but does exceeding F1 crash test requirements mean anything for how safe they are on ovals?
the F1 crash test is not only a frontal impact but also rearend collusion to and a t bone hit as well, all this BS that it's not oval worthy is all wilkie and crackforum BS and desperation, BR is one earl team bolting for cc the kid blew his gp2 test and now will not get a gp2 test for next year, and the kid will not step in a crapwagon and so daddy will buy hima new dp01, and if fanicia signd with him for next year she just might have a new dp as well, sole patch is hitting the unemployement lines in 07 , chip is long gone from earl before he signed jpm he was bolting to CC now with jpm salary and nascar he's done with open wheel racing, but he still might run one car in cc and a one off for the 497.5, the rest of the earl teams have no $$ to buy anything, agr's welfare check is cut drastically and it will be just marco and kannan, bye, bye to dario and herta, Rp one car for helio, sammy is gong to nascar
CC, Johnson I believe, made a point to counter the "unsafe on ovals" rumor quite awhile ago saying the new design exceeds all requirements. What might make it unsafe is the fact that it may put speeds at a place like Indy back above 230 without some pretty serious restriction. Yep, restrictor racing in a new merged series.
Insomniac
07-12-06, 05:12 PM
Probably or I would doubt the FIA would allow them to do turn 13 at Indy.
Didn't help Ralphy. ;)
Insomniac
07-12-06, 05:14 PM
I'm glad it appears the DP01 is oval ready, so that won't be an impediment to hopefully get some ovals back.
Speaking of Ralphie...didn't the SAFER remain installed...backwards? :gomer: (or did he actually hit it?)
Insomniac
07-13-06, 07:09 AM
Speaking of Ralphie...didn't the SAFER remain installed...backwards? :gomer: (or did he actually hit it?)
In 2004, he missed it since they left it set up in the configuration for Indy. In 2005, they had it right and he hit the barrier.
Joelski
07-13-06, 07:21 AM
Probably or I would doubt the FIA would allow them to do turn 13 at Indy.
Didn't Ralfie undergo a good old-fashioned earl spine crackin' there back in '03 or '04? Seems the F1 car met the IRL's rigid crash specs... :rolleyes:
Beat me to it! :gomer:
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