View Full Version : What Did RM Just Say?
Something about a KK proposal to FTG about Indy? I had to go, uh, empty something. Just missed it. All I got was a shocked (and dubious?) Despain. :confused:
Something about a KK proposal to FTG about Indy? I had to go, uh, empty something. Just missed it. All I got was a shocked (and dubious?) Despain. :confused:
All I caught was during the finale, when Dave mentioned that RM said that he had heard from KK that CCWS would keep the May calendar open for Indy. If that's the case, I'm done with this shizzle. Been there done that. :shakehead :thumdown:
-Kevin
He said he thinks (possibly something he's heard) that if the merger stalls or can't get done in time for 2007, that KK will sweep the month of May clean on the CCWS schedule and set it up where CCWS teams lease IRL equipment to run the 500.
:( :shakehead :thumdown: :flame:
Sorry guys. If I'm KK and it looks like the merger will occur, just not in time for '07, I still have to look at Indy as the most valuable asset I'll have that needs protection. Tony has allowed that race to run into the ground, someone has to save that thing before anymore embarrassments like today happen again.
spinner26
05-21-06, 11:10 PM
I agree with CART7 and it will be the CCWS saving the 500, what better way to take over a series?
CART T. Katz
05-21-06, 11:29 PM
but in crapwagon equipment? no sir.
why would a series risk its entire roster to a league where it gets no benefit for running a race, but takes an extreme amount of risk should any of those drivers get injured in cars that have been noted by fans, drivers, and informed parties as not being the safest in the world?
i don't care if its the most important race in the world, if there is no benefit to champcar or its drivers and teams to be at the 500 as league participants, then they shouldn't be there. remember other than rampant manufacturer spending, indycentric owners were part of what got us into this mess.
i'm all for indy participation by champcar teams as either an event on champcar's schedule or a unified schedule or under an outside party's sanction ala usac and the gold crown, but not under any other consideration.
champcar's participation doesn't do squat for protecting indy even for a possible merger if it happens. the best way to protect indy is to announce a merger between now and may 1, 2007.
Sean O'Gorman
05-21-06, 11:42 PM
This is beyond stupid. Why even bother anymore? What does KK even gain?
Jervis Tetch 1
05-21-06, 11:47 PM
I agree. Having a Champ Car driver win at Indy would help a lot, especially if it drives a huge stake in the heart of all those gomers. :gomer:
This is beyond stupid. Why even bother anymore? What does KK even gain?
I have no idea. Even though he got the CART assets for peanuts, his costs to run this series have got to be astronomical. Unless he got Cossie for nothing and plans on selling that to TG for a profit I can't figure out how this would gain him anything except over a very loooong haul.
It would be like the 60's when the F1 drivers showed up...and, kicked their a$$es! :laugh:
At least we would get rid of the Larry Foyt's, Arie jr, Gregoire, PJ Jones', Marty Roth's, Jaques Lazier and what ever grid filler they have this season, who is not considered a 'name' (cheever, b.lazier, michael & little al). :shakehead
KK's going to show the world that he can save Indy, one way or the other. TG can't do it by himself, that much is apparent. But KK can bring in a handful of entries and revive the buzz and drama. The three biggest Indys since the IRL was formed were 2000, 2002 and 2003. None of those were big because of TG. Does TG really want that to happen again? It won't if there's a merger. ;)
KK's no dummy. :thumbup:
DagoFast
05-22-06, 02:34 AM
I agree. Having a Champ Car driver win at Indy would help a lot, especially if it drives a huge stake in the heart of all those gomers. :gomer:
Oh puhleeze. Like it helped CART in 2000? Or 2001? 2002 was a banner year.
The ONLY ones it would help is toeknee and his inbred followers. He killed paw-paws grand old dame. Just because they try and dress her up in a new outfit and prop her upright dosent mean she has a pulse.
TKGAngel
05-22-06, 08:34 AM
It would be like the 60's when the F1 drivers showed up...and, kicked their a$$es! :laugh:
At least we would get rid of the Larry Foyt's, Arie jr, Gregoire, PJ Jones', Marty Roth's, Jaques Lazier and what ever grid filler they have this season, who is not considered a 'name' (cheever, b.lazier, michael & little al). :shakehead
It could be a battle of the field fillers. Champcar's greatest ride buyers vs. the IRLs Tonybucks brigade. ;)
Hard Driver
05-22-06, 09:02 AM
Idiotic,
The IRL pathetic existance is the only reason Tony would be considering a merger. He bleeding cash and unhappy family is the on pressure for him to do anything other than drive Indy into the ground because of his ego.
If Champ Car comes along and there is an "unofficial" superbowl between the series that drives up ratings and Interest at Indy, then only the IRL wins. How does this help champcar?
So far none of these guys have been very accurate with their 'merger' rumors. Hopefully this one is wrong as well.
Even before the split I was sick and tired of only having one race in may.
Crapwagons????? After last year? :cry: Count me out if true. :shakehead
I think to rebuild open wheelers in the USA,KK wants a strong Indy 500.
Even if,for now,it is only his drivers and not his cars that are part of it.
:)
TKGAngel
05-22-06, 09:58 AM
Crapwagons????? After last year? :cry: Count me out if true. :shakehead
Looks like SeeBass wouldn't be too happy about getting into a crapwagon Link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/24634/)
Asked if he would miss competing at Indianapolis this year, Bourdais responded by saying, “Not too much. Those cars are unsafe. Bruno (Junqueira) experienced it last year and so have many others. I’m glad I did the race last year. I proved I could do it, but as long as they are in those cars I don’t want to race there.”
I certainly don't know but it sounds to me like the offer would be for '07 pending an '08 merger. In other words KK would be offering this as a crumb, a stop-gap measure, prior to the implementation of an already agreed to merge involving more friendly long term advantages? In that light it sounds more palatable but the use of old crap is the major downside. And forget about that stake in the heart stuff. Nobody waltzes in with a one time Dallara/Honda effort and simply sticks it to Penske, Ganassi, Rahal, or Andretti, all running the same equipment. Advantage? The League. If we KNEW '08 would bring unity, turbos, a new Dallara (?) to go with the DP01, bigger grids, more roads, fewer ovals and a huge I500 resurgence, I might be able to do it...once.
Insomniac
05-22-06, 11:19 AM
I agree. Having a Champ Car driver win at Indy would help a lot, especially if it drives a huge stake in the heart of all those gomers. :gomer:
Not going to happen with Penske, A/G and Gansassi there. They run full programs and no one off is going to come in and beat them unless they all crash.
Insomniac
05-22-06, 11:22 AM
RM was speculating. At the end DD asked him if it's something he heard and I believe he said it was something he suspected would happen if a merger can't be done in 2007. I'd assume that means the merger would be definite for 2008. I know the cars are back-breakers, but with a true infusion of the ChampCar teams, that should knock most of the running chicanes and wankers out of the grid, which would make it "safer" theoretically.
Edit: I repeated what NismoZ said. :)
Anyone ever run across a side by side comparison of the specs of the current CART and IRL chassis, along with the DP-01????? It would be intersting to compare all 3 together just to see how much tweaking would need to be done to make them compatible. :confused:
racer2c
05-22-06, 11:43 AM
Not going to happen with Penske, A/G and Gansassi there. They run full programs and no one off is going to come in and beat them unless they all crash.
No one? I believe that N/H is more than capable/qualified/experienced to challenge for the win against the IRL 'elite'.
This is beyond stupid. Why even bother anymore? What does KK even gain?
$$$$$$$$$$$
If they get good equipment, then a CC driver could pull away with a victory.
What if Katherine whoops Danica?
Plus, it benefits the 07 Indy 500, which benefits the future of American Open Wheel Racing. If there is a merger in place for 08, then showcasing that in Indy in 07 is the best way to promote the new series.
Spicoli
05-22-06, 11:59 AM
$$$$$$$$$$$
If they get good equipment, then a CC driver could pull away with a victory.
What if Katherine whoops Danica?
Plus, it benefits the 07 Indy 500, which benefits the future of American Open Wheel Racing. If there is a merger in place for 08, then showcasing that in Indy in 07 is the best way to promote the new series.
screw that. Let ___king Tony continue to screw this up. He's not agreeing to anything now, what makes you think this would help?
either merge within the next month, or move forward. Quit dicking around. :thumbup:
Andrew Longman
05-22-06, 12:06 PM
If they have agreed to merge, then merge. There is still plenty of time to put together a combined schedule and the like for 07.
If haven't agreed to merge then there is little to be gained for CC by leaving the schedule open for CC teams to compete unless they think it adds enough to a sponsor package to justify the cost of the IRL equipment (in which case you could ask why they don't just run the complete IRL schedule ).
Looks like SeeBass wouldn't be too happy about getting into a crapwagon Link (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/24634/)
The full quote here... (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?series=5&id=2453108)
No love from Bourdais for IRL Cars
Bourdais is one racer who isn't shedding any tears because he is not in Indianapolis for the month of May and the Indianapolis 500. And he wasn't shy about explaining why.
"Those cars are unsafe," he opined. "Bruno [Junqueira] experienced it last year and so have many others. "I'm glad I did the race last year. I proved I could do it. But as long as they are in those [IRL] cars, I don't want to race there. I don't want to break my back and end up handicapped." :eek:
Spicoli
05-22-06, 12:29 PM
If they have agreed to merge, then merge. There is still plenty of time to put together a combined schedule and the like for 07.
If haven't agreed to merge then there is little to be gained for CC by leaving the schedule open for CC teams to compete unless they think it adds enough to a sponsor package to justify the cost of the IRL equipment (in which case you could ask why they don't just run the complete IRL schedule ).
We have a winner.
http://www.oslo.net/historie/OL/gifs/weissflog-winner-of-k120.gif
Andrew Longman
05-22-06, 12:58 PM
We have a winner.
http://www.oslo.net/historie/OL/gifs/weissflog-winner-of-k120.gif
Thanks. I'm touched. I tried really hard on that one. :gomer:
Insomniac
05-23-06, 07:28 AM
No one? I believe that N/H is more than capable/qualified/experienced to challenge for the win against the IRL 'elite'.
Yes, no one. Yes, N/H obviously hava a good ChampCar program, but just remember, before they became dominant, Ganassi and Penske had controlled CART until they left. And now, finally with a six year old chassis N/H is on top. They are never going to go do a one off and have a chassis anywhere close to as capable as Penske or Ganassi. This isn't the top CART teams coming to Indy to beat up on people who didn't even bother with wind tunnels. You're talking about trying to cherry pick a race with real teams and real budgets (which even N/H kind of lacks now).
Insomniac
05-23-06, 07:32 AM
If they have agreed to merge, then merge. There is still plenty of time to put together a combined schedule and the like for 07.
The schedule can't even be the biggest impediment. Worst case, you can't dump some races or reshuffle the schedule and you have a couple overlapping weekends in 07. They can afford to just split up the teams and run 2 races (and pay some people to do a one off).
On one hand I worry that an open schedule in May could be Tony's queue to pull the football out again. But thinking about it, it could be that the tables have now turned on who has more to gain by leaving the schedule open. If leaving May open would get a couple of IRL teams to switch and cherry pick the best races from the IRL schedule it might help push a merger through on favorable terms.
Insomniac
05-23-06, 10:42 AM
On one hand I worry that an open schedule in May could be Tony's queue to pull the football out again. But thinking about it, it could be that the tables have now turned on who has more to gain by leaving the schedule open. If leaving May open would get a couple of IRL teams to switch and cherry pick the best races from the IRL schedule it might help push a merger through on favorable terms.
This would probably all depend on the manufacturer money. That was the sole reason for teams to jump from CART to the IRL. They were fine cherry picking Indy and running CART, but Toyota and then Honda wanted their engines in those cars. They took their money to the other side and the teams who wanted to keep their big budgets went with them. Looking around, the money is drying up in OW. Is Marlboro out this year? Them and Target are pretty much the last big sponsors left (and who knows how much Target is spending). If the manufacturer money is gone, it will be interesting to see where someone could run a profitable program and how much TG or KK are willing to continue to prop all this up.
racer2c
05-23-06, 10:54 AM
Yes, no one. Yes, N/H obviously hava a good ChampCar program, but just remember, before they became dominant, Ganassi and Penske had controlled CART until they left. And now, finally with a six year old chassis N/H is on top. They are never going to go do a one off and have a chassis anywhere close to as capable as Penske or Ganassi. This isn't the top CART teams coming to Indy to beat up on people who didn't even bother with wind tunnels. You're talking about trying to cherry pick a race with real teams and real budgets (which even N/H kind of lacks now).
IRL Roxs! :gomer:
Steve, me thinks we needs to get Team OC off the ground for May '07 ;)
Anyone know any gullible old people retiring to FL or AZ with gobs of cash ready to invest in bunk "once in a lifetime opportunity!!!" schemes? :)
Steve, me thinks we needs to get Team OC off the ground for May '07 ;)
Anyone know any gullible old people retiring to FL or AZ with gobs of cash ready to invest in bunk "once in a lifetime opportunity!!!" schemes? :)We'll hire Bradi Lattimer to do our PR. She, more than anyone, knows how badly we need PR. :)
Maybe we can hire Ted Nugent to write us a song.
The Nuge already lost his nest egg due to shady business managers.
We need someone a bit more liquid, and famous. Steven Tyler fits the mold of crusty, old, famous musician who people seem to recognize (granted, there are no flaming arrows being shot from the trees above spearing the defenseless fauna below by lone savage in loin cloth). And I'm sure he has quite a bit more saved away :D
Use the lure of free rounds of golf at BY Crossing and go after Alice Cooper.... :D
extramundane
05-23-06, 01:02 PM
The Nuge already lost his nest egg due to shady business managers.
We need someone a bit more liquid, and famous. Steven Tyler fits the mold of crusty, old, famous musician who people seem to recognize (granted, there are no flaming arrows being shot from the trees above spearing the defenseless fauna below). And I'm sure he has quite a bit more saved away :D
Plus, didn't he warble the anthem for the Tonyland 500 a few years ago? Imagine the PR coup of stealing an IRL icon! :gomer:
Plus, didn't he warble the anthem for the Tonyland 500 a few years ago? Imagine the PR coup of stealing an IRL icon! :gomer:
It's gold, Jerry. GOLD!! :D
Andrew Longman
05-23-06, 01:08 PM
Plus, didn't he warble the anthem for the Tonyland 500 a few years ago? Imagine the PR coup of stealing an IRL icon! :gomer:
And if IIRC Areosmith even sponsored a car that year.
Can we get his daughter on the pit crew?
Use the lure of free rounds of golf at BY Crossing and go after Alice Cooper.... :Darffin genius. :laugh:
Plus, didn't he warble the anthem for the Tonyland 500 a few years ago? Imagine the PR coup of stealing an IRL icon! :gomer:
I don't know about icon, I seem to remember a bit of a melt down in gomer-land over Tyler's rendition of the Anthem.
Andrew Longman
05-23-06, 01:55 PM
I don't know about icon, I seem to remember a bit of a melt down in gomer-land over Tyler's rendition of the Anthem.
Yes. "Land of the free. And the home of the Indianapolis 500!"
Tyler believed them when they told him it was all about Indy.
Surely he would be better than stealing Jim Nabors, right?
How much Brady Bunch residuals do you think Florence Henderson still has?
extramundane
05-23-06, 02:22 PM
Tyler believed them when they told him it was all about Indy.
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/40f9a92246.jpg
The Nuge already lost his nest egg due to shady business managers.
But, doesn't his mom still get residuals from Liquid Paper royalties?
Opposite Lock
05-23-06, 03:51 PM
But, doesn't his mom still get residuals from Liquid Paper royalties?
Wasn't that Mike Nesmith's (Monkees) mom?
Nuge's mom used to write a column in the Illinois Entertainer. I think she died a few years ago.
Wasn't that Mike Nesmith's (Monkees) mom?
Nuge's mom used to write a column in the Illinois Entertainer. I think she died a few years ago.
I remember her writing for the IE, but I thought she did both. My bad if that was wrong.
Google is your friend: :D
It was Michael Nesmith's mom. (http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventions/a/liquid_paper.htm)
Boatdesigner
05-23-06, 04:08 PM
If they don't merge in 2007, I don't think either one will be around in '08. I don't watch the IRL at all, but I do notice quite a few top CC teams with blank sidepods (AJ, Bruno, both Forsythe cars, unless we really believe GF prefers to sponsor his own cars). If Mikey actually does switch back to CC next year, what will FTG do with only 14-15 car grids? He may be able to pay for fillers at the I500, but can he do it for a whole season? I think it has to be '07 or never.
oddlycalm
05-23-06, 05:07 PM
If the manufacturer money is gone, it will be interesting to see where someone could run a profitable program and how much TG or KK are willing to continue to prop all this up. Best case you are looking at a couple healthy teams max in each series. Outside of that it's pure subsidies outside of a few associate sponsors.
It may be possible financially to limp through yet another season on this basis but a year delay just means that much more work to do. Once they lose the interest of the hardcore fans they have both squandered their greatest remaining asset.
oc
Spicoli
05-23-06, 05:15 PM
If they don't merge in 2007, I don't think either one will be around in '08. I don't watch the IRL at all, but I do notice quite a few top CC teams with blank sidepods (AJ, Bruno, both Forsythe cars, unless we really believe GF prefers to sponsor his own cars). If Mikey actually does switch back to CC next year, what will FTG do with only 14-15 car grids? He may be able to pay for fillers at the I500, but can he do it for a whole season? I think it has to be '07 or never.
1. True
2. forsythe has enough money and a big enough company he can do whatever the F he wants, so its a moot point.
3. 14-15 car grids in IRL without subsidies? :laugh: Try 4, 2 without Visions.
4. I agree!
Miller suggests in a story on Speed that if the merger doesn't happen Champ car should just add Indy to the schedule and pay points and enough prize money to cover the equipment leases.
I wonder how much IRL teams will be expected to contribute from their winnings to help prop up the field this year.
Miller suggests in a story on Speed that if the merger doesn't happen Champ car should just add Indy to the schedule and pay points and enough prize money to cover the equipment leases.
I wonder how much IRL teams will be expected to contribute from their winnings to help prop up the field this year.
CC shouldn't have to pay prize money to the teams. It's up to them if they want to run or not. CC should give points to anyone that does run.
If you can't work with them, work around them.
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