Question for the veteran racefans

[Sean O'Gorman]

I know alot of you guys have been watching for 20-30-40+ years. Has there ever come a point where it just isn't fun to watch anymore?

[Opposite Lock]

Aren't you supposed to be at Mid-O right now? :saywhat:

[FanofMario]

That thought has crossed my mind several times since 2002, but I have to think something positive is going to happen soon---right?

[cart7]

That's MR veteran racefan to you sonny.

My wheels of interest started coming off in 2001, it's not gotten any better.
I'm about done with this whole thing.

[dando]

My wheels of interest started coming off in 2001, it's not gotten any better.
I'm about done with this whole thing.

Yup. About the same here. I'm just not enthused by any of the major racing series these days. :( Occasionally a great race comes along like Imola or Edmonton last season, which stokes the fire for a bit...I'm still waiting for one this season.

-Kevin

[coolhand]

I have not been a fan as long as most people here have and I am unexcited by what CC has to offer. Its not any different then 2004 and 2005 right now. Merge this year or I am through.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Aren't you supposed to be at Mid-O right now? :saywhat:

I got sick Friday. I went yesterday but I wasn't feeling too hot again last night and I decided I simply wasn't interested in what is going on to bother showing up today.

FWIW, this isn't a series specific thing. I watch races in Grand-Am and NASCAR and fall asleep in the middle of those, too. Its like I've seen everything there is to see for awhile.

[Wabbit]

Yup. About the same here. I'm just not enthused by any of the major racing series these days. :( Occasionally a great race comes along like Imola or Edmonton last season, which stokes the fire for a bit...I'm still waiting for one this season.

-Kevin

Me 3.

Missed the CC race today. I'm 0/3 this year so far. I might watch Indy just to see Michael run again. Portland is a possibility, but only because I might go down with my brother-in-law that has connections that can get us into the paddock.

[Opposite Lock]

I got sick Friday. I went yesterday but I wasn't feeling too hot again last night and I decided I simply wasn't interested in what is going on to bother showing up today.

FWIW, this isn't a series specific thing. I watch races in Grand-Am and NASCAR and fall asleep in the middle of those, too. Its like I've seen everything there is to see for awhile.

So you’ve seen it all and you’re burned out on racing, at age 22? :laugh:

Dood, those cone-maulings must cause a lot of remorse. :gomer:

[EDwardo]

I know alot of you guys have been watching for 20-30-40+ years. Has there ever come a point where it just isn't fun to watch anymore?

Hell no!


But that doesn't mean missing a few races or exploring something different is off the table.

[Redwing]

That's MR veteran racefan to you sonny.

My wheels of interest started coming off in 2001, it's not gotten any better.
I'm about done with this whole thing.


Same here. I've been watching since '71 and about the time I started to autox in '99 I realized that I would rather drive than watch. The Split, the end of big-time sports car racing, the death of any racing magazine worth subscribing to and the rise of unexciting spec series at every level have sent a clear message that racing is not for watching anymore. There are too many easy ways to go racing for myself now.

[gjc2]

I've been are racing fan since I was a kid. In that time I guess you can say my interests evolved. I followed drag racing because I drag raced, I followed motorcycle road racing (I raced my 250cc Ducati a couple of times). I went to the last four or five USGPs at Watkins Glen. When Mario Andretti retired form F1 to race Champ Cars exclusively I went with him. I follow Nextel Cup, I don't watch many races, but I follow the series. I'm now at a point that I don't feel in necessary to watch all the races to still be a fan. I follow "the split" as much as any race series.

George

[SteveH]

Dare I say there's too much racing? 20 years ago, Indy was on TV and that was about it for CART. NASCAR was mostly on ESPN. No sports car racing to speak of, certainly no intense coverage of LeMans, Daytona and Sebring. When there was a race televised live it WAS a big deal and something to look forward to. The rest of them, you had to wait until the next day to find out in the papers what happened.

Now we have everything on TV, one too many open wheel series and one too many sports car series. And wall to wall NASCAR coverage including Busch and Trucks. Its not fun to watch because there's too little high quality racing in open wheel and sports car or the fields are not as deep they should be or were. Its not fun because other than NASCAR everything else pales by comparison. And of course on the internet there's plenty that want to compare.

On the bright side, F1 is pretty good right now. And every race is televised. The interent has provides a tremendous amount of information that otherwise we would not have access too. And some of that might be making it not as fun. If you know what I mean.

It will get better. And it will get worse.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Same here. I've been watching since '71 and about the time I started to autox in '99 I realized that I would rather drive than watch.

I think thats partially what did me in too. I autocrossed for about a year before I became good at it, and suddenly that changed my perspective. When I've had good events and beaten drivers who have road raced before and done decent at it, it makes me realize that unlike baseball, basketball, football, etc. it isn't talent that is keeping me from being a participant, its money.

Now I'm not saying I'm good enough to drive a Champ Car or anything, but if I had a half mil a year to blow on racing, I could be running some form of open wheel too, and probably wouldn't be the worst driver (hey, 25th out of 26 isn't last!). That just blows my mind.

Also, I think the majority of what is causing me to lose my interest is just meeting some of the people behind the scenes. It seems to me that in NASCAR, theres people who are working for a living and working to keep the sport commercially successful. Smart businessmen. In road racing, it seems like everyone is too caught up in the glamour of being around racing personalities and stuck in their own little world to even notice the fans. Seriously, for every genuine racing enthusiast working for a race team like Travis, theres probably a dozen wannabe groupies who work for a team so they can nab a trophy husband, or tools like Kaaveh from TF who want to be buddy buddy with race car drivers. Or a paddock full of drivers who never had to earn their sponsorship as they moved up the ladder, so they have no clue how to gain fans. Does Champ Car or Grand-Am or IRL have a Tony Stewart or Eddie Irvine or Carl Edwards or David Coulthard? Because you need guys like them to get fans, and I don't see anyone like that in any form of road racing.

I dunno, I just think the longer I watch, the more obscure and irrelevent the road racing side of the sport gets, and I'm really losing interest.

[cart7]

SeanO, you could say that about a lot of professions. Some seem attractive, appealing and gitchy from the outside but once you get behind the scenes you start to see that:

It's still just a job.

A lot of people got into the profession for less than honorable reasons.

The profession is not without flaws, some serious.

Once exposed to the inside, that initial attraction of the unknown (some of that mystic created by the profession itself) gets lost. You then see it for what it is. You either love the profession and tolerate it's shortcomings or you move on.
In your case the production you've seen all this time (you're only 22 years old for chris sakes) suddenly loses that attraction because you know what goes on behind the scene.

Good thing you're not into watching magicians and illusionists. How great would that be once you found out how all those gags work?

[cart7]

I would add something else, Baseball lost a ton of fans in the 80's into the 90's with a series of strikes and lockouts too close together. Suddenly the business side of the game got pushed to the forefront. Suddenly fans were basically hearing the owners and players telling them, F you, this is a business and this game is shutdown till our greedy, power hungry ego's are satisfied. Auto racing in almost all forms is suffering from this.

[skaven]

I'm as tired as everyone with the "wait until 2007" mantra... but it looks like 2006 might, truly, be a waste of a season if Seabass keeps up his domination and no one else invests in their Lola programs. I only saw bits of Long Beach, but missed Monterrey and Houston.

I might not watch many more this season. So, it's really not fun to watch now and hasn't been for a few years...

I think '99 was the last season that really did it for me.

That said, I'll go to the Denver GP, maybe RA and check in here and other sites during 2006 to keep up with the series -and wait until 2007 either rolls out the DP01/ has the merger/ whatever.

I'll reserve judgement until then, but I fear I might not like it in 2007 either. :(

[FCYTravis]

Once exposed to the inside, that initial attraction of the unknown (some of that mystic created by the profession itself) gets lost. You then see it for what it is.
Truer words have never been spoken.

There's a damn good reason that lots of alcohol is consumed post-race.

[Joe in LA]

I know alot of you guys have been watching for 20-30-40+ years. Has there ever come a point where it just isn't fun to watch anymore?

Yes, "indycars" weren't fun for much of the first year or two of the CART/USAC split; F1 wasn't fun for the second-half of '82 and much of '83 after Gilles died; "indycars" are not that much fun right now--unlike the original split, this has just kept getting worse; and sports cars aren't fun much of the time--every once in a while the act gets together and its great, but most of the time it is screwed up. When it's not fun, I don't watch very much--eventually you get pulled back in.

[RacinM3]

Participation as a driver in racing will always dim your enthusiasm for watching other people race.

I am definitely not the racefan I was before I started racing. I attribute it not only to the fact that I'd rather race than watch, but also to the tremendously long hours preparing a race car, the expense involved, and the time spent going to, staying at, and coming home from the track. In some respects it's like having a second job, and when you get home, turning on a race is not necessarily foremost in your mind.

When I go through longer stretches without racing, like now, I find my interest escalates some, and I really enjoy watching ALMS, GAC, and SWC races. I still watch all the F1 races.

As far as US open wheel goes, it's the actions of others, not me, that have led to my absolute loss of interest. I had Monterrey on yesterday, but really only as background noise while I worked on projects around our newly-remodeled house (the house that is the reason why I haven't been racing much!).

Anyway, the house is almost done, and my attention is turning toward finding an E46 M3 flood car - the basis for the next race car!

[Dirty Sanchez]

jaded at 22 :laugh:

I've crossed into the participant arena on many occassions in the form of autocross and driver education events/track days... and it hasn't done anything to diminish my interest as an observer. In fact, given the choice between thrashing cones in a parking lot in front of no one or travelling to a race... 9 times out of 10 I'd rather watch the pros do it for real. my experiences as a participant only make me a better observer.

[Sean O'Gorman]

jaded at 22 :laugh:

I've crossed into the participant arena on many occassions in the form of autocross and driver education events/track days... and it hasn't done anything to diminish my interest as an observer. In fact, given the choice between thrashing cones in a parking lot in front of no one or travelling to a race... 9 times out of 10 I'd rather watch the pros do it for real. my experiences as a participant only make me a better observer.

That's an interesting observation, kinda surprised me. I'd think that especially with track events where there may be a car in front of you that is 7 seconds ahead of you, and after 12 laps or so is only 2.5s ahead, it would seem like a thrill to try and run consistant laps to catch the guy (assuming he gives you the point-by). Watching that would have to be boring, compared to actually doing it. I just don't think there is enough action in the typical road race (not that there is anything wrong with it) to make spectating seem interesting after driving.

I also think alot of the enthusiasm has gone away at the events. I've never heard anyone cheer at an ALMS event, no one really seems to have any specific driver loyalties, etc. Going to CART races ten years I remember Marlboro flags being flown by fans, tons of souvenir trailers, roaring fans, etc. Now no one seems to care, they just stand the first two laps, then sit, and clap politely when the race ends.

[RacinM3]

Sean, as I said in my post, it's the actions of others that have caused the decline of what you say used occur at CART races. 10+ years of split has done that.

That is different from your original thread, where you're asking people with 20, 30+ years if it "just gets old".

I remember, when I was a kid, I'd go to the LBGP. I can remember actually feeling a bit depressed after the race was over for a couple of days, I was so into it. That didn't last long, but serves as a reminder to me of how much I really love the sport.

[racer2c]

For me much of my interest level revolves around the driver I find most interesting to watch. that tends to be cyclical in nature as drivers come and go.
In the 70's as a youngster who was influenced by who my father and grandfather favored in racing, namely Mario, Emmo, Sullivan, Mears even Arie in the early to mid 80's.
In the late 80's, early 90's I was the biggest Senna fan on the planet. I have boxes and boxes of Senna "stuff" and his death saddened me greatly.

I was also on the Red 5 bandwagon for his first year in Champ Car. In ‘94Senna died and Nige bailed IndyCars but I did like what I saw in Gilles boy. So I lost interest in F1 until Jacque went over there and I really didn't have a favorite in CART until a certain Italian came over and blew me away. Then I was all Zanardi all the time. And then Montoya hit the ground running and then Da Matta. They were my favorites but I still didn't mind Dario and Helio and Gil and Roberto and Jimmy and Paul Tracy and then I realized, hey I'm more of a fan of the sport than of any one driver. The 90's was a great decade for CART. Fierce on track racing, great drivers. I'm positive that if the spilt never occurred Champ Car would in a different success bracket than it currently is.

I'm glad there still is a Champ Car and I still watch every race, but not live like I used to. Now when I watch a Champ Car race the feeling is more like it's a ladder series with no headliner. Maybe it's the broadcast quality, maybe it's the lack of depth of field, whatever it is, my "interest" level has waned but I feel it's just because of the cyclical thing. I can’t remember the last piece of Champ Car swag I purchased.
Something will occur that will bring the excitement back to how it used to be. At least I keep telling myself that. I’d love to see Bourdais kick Dario, Kanann, Helio, Hornish and the rest of their collective a$$’s.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Watching that would have to be boring, compared to actually doing it.I didn't say I'd rather watch track days or autocross... I said I'd rather watch pros competing at a higher level.

[oddlycalm]

Dare I say there's too much racing? While there are many aspects to audience burnout (as witnessed by the other comments posted) I'm reasonably sure this is the most important issue for a lot of people. Saturation broadcasting of motorsport product with too little actual racing interspersed seems to be the stuff of the future. The Frances and Murdoch have turned motorsport into a major business but is long on quantity and short on quality these days.

I continue to be pleased with MotoGP, World Superbike, F1 and GP2. In the US I find less to be excited about. As someone else stated, there are one too many sports car and OW series. AMA superbike has arguably lost it's best riders to MotoGP and WSB. Our great local 1/2 mile dirt oval is gone to make way for yet another cineplex and along with it went our WOO date.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

I used to watch every NASCAR race on TV. Then I cut the Busch races out because I couldn't give it that much time and the guys that seem to win raced on Sunday anyway.

Now I never watch a Cup race either. It just isn't fun anymore.

[NismoZ]

I'm strange, I suppose. I'm one of those 40+ guys you alluded to and I still go nuts when I see special things. Watched the first little rear engined cars beat up on the big honking Ferraris, Maseratis, Scarabs etc. ( Porsches, Elvas, Elva-Porsches, Cooper/Climax...huh, Roger Penske...1st sub-2:30 lap at RA in '63 :) That guy was GOOD!) and instead of hating it I accepted it as inevitable change. Then it made sense to stick a big honker in the back and we got the Genie/Fords, the Comstock Sadlers, Lotus 19/Fords, Cooper "King" Cobras, (ah, Ed Leslie. Came and broke the Meadowdale USRRC track record by about 7 seconds! :eek: I was amazed and knew I was seeing something special. A revolution!) Jim Hall's Mk. IIs, REAL movable wings, side skirts, and so on. Even BETTER! Can Am. Only one story here. Talk about rabid fans. First RA Can Am, '67 (?) People RUSHED THE FENCES when Gurney and Surtees and McLaren, Donohue et al came by on the parade lap. Shouting, waving, screaming. I mean, these were HAPPY fans! Over 75,000 and most under 25 I'd say. Look around at your next CC race. We've aged! They knew they were finally seeing the best and demonstrated their pleasure. Trans Am. Good LORD! Parnelli, Swede, Mark, Hall, Posey, Follmer and on and on. It was like NASCAB's on road courses only about 6 times better! Formula 5000. NOW, we're talkin'. Never got to Watkins Glen to see an F-1 event, but guess what? Mario was clear in stating his Vel's Parnelli Jones Lola was faster than his F-1 car those 2 years. Brian Redman, David Hobbs, the Jorgenson Eagles. Beautiful. Even Can Am II, though not the same after those 1200 hp Penske/Donohue/Follmer Panzers got through with it, was still fun to watch. Saw this 19 yr old kid up at RA in one of his first "big bore" races. You just KNEW he was special and would score big. Al Unser Jr. Too bad he's the butt of so many spiteful jokes now but you knew he was going to soon be a big part of racing history. That's the Al I like to remember. And IMSA. So much fun GTO. GTU. Tullius, Jags, Team 44! Geoff Brabham, Al Holbert the Rousch Fords, and Hendrick Corvette, 962s. Guess those guys learned SOMEthing there!That WAS IMSA, right? Even the Formula Atlantic races. I was pretty sure guys named Rahal, Sullivan and Rosberg (and later Moreno and Andretti) probably had a pretty good future in racing waiting for them! Post is WAY too long but perhaps you get the idea. I Like ALMS, Sebring, Le Mans. Can tolerate GA on the right tracks. I'll even look at 'Cup on the road courses and maybe the Winston or whatever the heck it's called now. Oops, guess I just missed it this time. Always used to tune in to Thursday Night Thunder to see this high school kid at IRP. Jeff Gordon. Guess he's done OK. :D Driver deaths, the demise of favored series, politics in sports and business and recession have all changed the landscape of racing but I've always found a place to hang my hat, Indy Car/ChampCar the longest. I'd like to see a simple thing result from all the BS about unimergification. I think most fans would like to see the best drivers and teams in the best cars at the I500 and assorted other best and diverse tracks, in what would be a true driver's championship. Just DO it! Whaddaya think? That kid Rahal have a shot in racing? (Did I hear an announcer say he was named after Graham Hill, the 1st AMERICAN World Champion? Nobody is THAT dumb, are they? Must have had a few too many beers) Marco? Another Rosberg? Senna? Still fun for me!

[nrc]

Ouch. Paragraphs are your friend. :saywhat:

[NismoZ]

Oh, do we do that on the forums? Next time! :gomer:

[racer2c]

This thought came to me while reading RM's 33 editorial and thinking about pre-split 500's. I was much much much more of a "die hard" racing "fanboy" before racing forums popped my fanboy cherry.

Racing forums will taint your enjoyment of the sport if you let them.

[oddlycalm]

People RUSHED THE FENCES when Gurney and Surtees and McLaren, Donohue et al came by on the parade lap. Shouting, waving, screaming.
-snip-
Trans Am. Good LORD! Parnelli, Swede, Mark, Hall, Posey, Follmer and on and on. It was like NASCAB's on road courses only about 6 times better! Formula 5000. NOW, we're talkin'. The only place you're going to find that kind of eggcitement in racing today is MotoGP. Anyone that was at Laguna Seca for last years race or watched on TV saw that same kind of crowd reaction, and when Nicky Hayden brought it home in front of Rossi they went nuts. No ride buyers in MotoGP, not every bike is created equal and these really are the best guys in the world. No fuel economy runs either. Rossi is arguably the best rider in history yet the young guys coming up like Dany Pedrosa and Casey Stoner are so good it's scary.

NASCAR has sucked all the air out of US racing and replaced it with the motorsport equivalent of sugar coated breakfast food. Processed psuedo racing for the yucks to watch. NASCAR, 8 billion served.... and every flavorless morsel gobble up eagerly.

If money spent or shear numbers of teams and personnel counted for anything NASCAR should logically dwarf the excitement of the Can Am, Trans Am and Formula 5000 eras, but of course it doesn't even come close to living up to the excitement of NASCAR circa 1970. :shakehead

oc

[mueber]

I’m 50, and I went to my first races when I was nine or ten years old. During most of that time, auto racing was on the upswing; now, the bottom has fallen out of the market.

Why?

We live in a time when our heroes’ flaws are all too obvious. I dare say that Foyt, Parnelli, Gurney, and the like would never do it so obviously for the money because there wasn’t any money. Today, owners and participants are looking for the best deal and there are no Jim Gilmore type sponsors any more. They aren’t heroes; they are businessmen. Unless you consider Bill Gates and Warren Buffett heroes, there will never again be anyone you can admire in auto racing.

Enjoy the races as races. If you need a hero, go with Mother Teresa.

[racer2c]

I’m 50, and I went to my first races when I was nine or ten years old. During most of that time, auto racing was on the upswing; now, the bottom has fallen out of the market.

Why?

We live in a time when our heroes’ flaws are all too obvious. I dare say that Foyt, Parnelli, Gurney, and the like would never do it so obviously for the money because there wasn’t any money. Today, owners and participants are looking for the best deal and there are no Jim Gilmore type sponsors any more. They aren’t heroes; they are businessmen. Unless you consider Bill Gates and Warren Buffet heroes, there will never again be anyone you can admire in auto racing.

Enjoy the races as races. If you need a hero, go with Mother Theresa.

try convincing 25 million NASCAR fans of that. ;)

[Sean O'Gorman]

The only place you're going to find that kind of eggcitement in racing today is MotoGP. Anyone that was at Laguna Seca for last years race or watched on TV saw that same kind of crowd reaction, and when Nicky Hayden brought it home in front of Rossi they went nuts. No ride buyers in MotoGP, not every bike is created equal and these really are the best guys in the world. No fuel economy runs either. Rossi is arguably the best rider in history yet the young guys coming up like Dany Pedrosa and Casey Stoner are so good it's scary.

NASCAR has sucked all the air out of US racing and replaced it with the motorsport equivalent of sugar coated breakfast food. Processed psuedo racing for the yucks to watch. NASCAR, 8 billion served.... and every flavorless morsel gobble up eagerly.

If money spent or shear numbers of teams and personnel counted for anything NASCAR should logically dwarf the excitement of the Can Am, Trans Am and Formula 5000 eras, but of course it doesn't even come close to living up to the excitement of NASCAR circa 1970. :shakehead

oc

Yeah, the motorcycle stuff is cool and all, but I don't get that into it because I can't identify with it. I have no desire to ever hop on a sportbike and go riding.

[G.]

Yeah, the motorcycle stuff is cool and all, but I don't get that into it because I can't identify with it. I have no desire to ever hop on a sportbike and go riding.

in another thread you said this:


Champ Car racing is (or could/should/would be) entertaining, right? If your answer is no, might as well just shut down the series because I can't imagine why you'd attach any sort of entertainment to it then. Convince the fans that the race cars with the race car drivers in them on the real race car tracks that it is entertaining (and tailor the product accordingly), and the fans and sponsors will come. Take the attitude that this stuff isn't going to sell without a bunch of other irrevelent crap attached to it, and you end up with cars with "fake" sponsors that don't cover the bill.

That type of racing is exactly what MotoGP is providing right now. Just on two wheels.

I am a n00b fan of MGP.

[RichK]

The only place you're going to find that kind of eggcitement in racing today is MotoGP.
oc

The USGP at Laguna had an electric atmosphere, no doubt about it. Hardly any mainstream advertising, either.

There's something about being in the presence of the greats that lifts the whole event to another level. I remember as a kid, attending the USGP F1 race at Long Beach, and the Indy 500 - they had the same feel.

You put the best racers in the world together to compete, you'll have fans beating down the door.

[rabbit]

You put the best racers in the world together to compete, you'll have fans beating down the door.Which is exactly why there needs to be a merger. In five years, I want to see A.J. Allmendinger, Marco Andretti, Graham Rahal and Sebastien Bourdais going four-wide into Turn 1 at the start in Cleveland. And I'm willing to bet there are lot of people who would pay to see that.

One series with a strong field > Two series with diluted fields

[cameraman]

I want to see A.J. Allmendinger, Marco Andretti, Graham Rahal and Sebastien Bourdais going four-wide into Turn 1 at the start in Cleveland

I'd rather see them get past the first turn myself...