Porsche-Power

[NismoZ]

1-2-3 (qualifying) at Homestead Rolex. Did GA give them too much, or are they just THAT good?

[Sean O'Gorman]

SPOILER ALERT PLEASE!! :shakehead :flame: :thumdown:

[NismoZ]

No, I was just talking about qualifying...race at 7CST. I was just noticing top 10 cars covered by 1 sec. and 8 engine/chassis combos to start. Pretty impressive. The tape delay is only an hour or two, isn't it?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Oops. :o

I had no idea when the race was being run, just that it was tape delayed until 8 PM tonight, so I assumed those were the results. Sorry.

[pchall]

SPOILER ALERT PLEASE!! :shakehead :flame: :thumdown:

By now you should understand that Grand Am comes "pre-spoiled". :rolleyes:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Hi. This thread is for discussion of the race at Homestead. Care to add anything relevent?

[pchall]

Hi. This thread is for discussion of the race at Homestead. Care to add anything relevent?

Sure, posters should read with greater comprehension skills before whining about spoilers. If they can't do that, they should stay off the damned box until the race is over. Can you at least comprehend that? :flame:

BTW, who nominated you to be Thumper's Mother for Grand Am threads?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Sure, posters should read with greater comprehension skills before whining about spoilers. If they can't do that, they should stay off the damned box until the race is over. Can you at least comprehend that? :flame:

BTW, who nominated you to be Thumper's Mother for Grand Am threads?

I have perfectly fine reading comprehension skills, the original message made no mention of qualifying.

Anyway, lets keep the bitterness directed towards the IRL, where it belongs. :p

[chop456]

Hi. This thread is for discussion of the race at Homestead. Care to add anything relevent?

Like this?

http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=143286&postcount=3

"Grand Am - It's All About The Competitors - Rah Rah Rah!" :gomer:

[NismoZ]

Way to go guys, now you made me feel like crap and all I was trying to do was sound enthused. :cry: Sorry for the mislead, but would it piss you all off to hear Danica is P3 for tomorrow, and Penske is back where they belong? (1-2) And Jay Howard will win every IPS race this year and be our first "Merger Star"!? :) (before he forsakes us all and runs to Europe.)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Like this?

http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=143286&postcount=3

"Grand Am - It's All About The Competitors - Rah Rah Rah!" :gomer:

Do as I say, not as I do. :o

[Andrew Longman]

Anyway, lets keep the bitterness directed towards the IRL, where it belongs. :p

:rofl: Thank you SeanO

[Sean O'Gorman]

Well that race kinda sucked.

[Fio1]

Well that race kinda sucked.

Is it me or does grand-am take forever to get a car out of the gravel trap? :shakehead

I'm still blown away that american series' don't do like F1 and have cranes and stuff around the tracks. Who was it that had a massive accident at the 130R at Suzuka 3-5 years ago and they cleaned the track before the cars made it back around? If that was Grand-Am or even CCWS for that matter it would have been a 15-Minute fiasco. :shakehead

If it takes 1:30 to make it around a track and a car spins on a restart, where all the cars are bunched up, there is no reason why they can't get the car cleared in 45 seconds without stopping the darn race. Absolutely no reason! :rolleyes:

[chop456]

That was McNish. As I remember, it took a while to clear the debris/fix the barrier.

[extramundane]

Well that race kinda sucked.

I could have told you that, and I didn't even watch it.

As for Porsche: You wanted factory involvement, you got it. Let the bitching begin.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Porsche will be reeled in if it keeps up, though I think the fact that it was Homestead and the Crawfords always do strong there may have exaggerated the advantage they have.

[nrc]

I'm still blown away that american series' don't do like F1 and have cranes and stuff around the tracks. I'm still blown away that so many American fans think that series and tracks that are scratching and clawing to keep some kind of professional racing besides NASCAR alive in the U.S. think that anyone can afford a dozen cranes on the chance that they'll save a few laps of yellow.

[extramundane]

Porsche will be reeled in if it keeps up, though I think the fact that it was Homestead and the Crawfords always do strong there may have exaggerated the advantage they have.

That must be it. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Porsche factory drivers or a Job's longstanding relationship with the Porsche factory.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Explain how Cheever's team was almost as fast then. :gomer:

[extramundane]

Explain how Cheever's team was almost as fast then. :gomer:

Lucas Luhr. :gomer:

[Sean O'Gorman]

So Luhr was the one who lead the first 15 laps in the Cheeber car? :gomer: :gomer:

[extramundane]

I don't know who led what when, but I do know where Porsche factory drivers go, Porsche factory dollars follow.

Nah, it's gotta be the Crawfords. There's no way factory dollars would be skewing things in the paradise that is Grand Am...

:gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Yes, the monster Porsche factory team, with its Alaska Wild Salmon sponsorship that wasn't enough to make it to Mexico City. :laugh:

If the Brumos team hadn't sucked so much the past two years, the Porsche engine probably wouldn't have been given so many advantages this season. At least that is my guess.

[extramundane]

Yes, the monster Porsche factory team, with its Alaska Wild Salmon sponsorship that wasn't enough to make it to Mexico City. :laugh:

It was my impression they had no intention of running the full schedule. If Regardless, the 2 races they've entered, they've been hands-down the fastest car on track. It's pretty clear to anyone with open eyes that the Porsche factory bucks are there and they're making a difference.


If the Brumos team hadn't sucked so much the past two years, the Porsche engine probably wouldn't have been given so many advantages this season. At least that is my guess.

So much for 10 years of rules stability...

[NismoZ]

Sure Porsche factory bucks make a difference but it took a rules change for them to get it done. There is loud complaining already from competitors which was exactly the reason for my pre-race post of this topic. I think many could see it coming but I see no repeat of a mfg. domination in GA like we saw ruin the IRL. More weight perhaps when more results come in?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Grand-Am was doing just fine without Porsche and I'm sure if /when they bring the Porsche motor back in line with the rest of the field, even if it drives Porsche away.

[TorontoWorker]

Grand-Am was doing just fine without Porsche and I'm sure if /when they bring the Porsche motor back in line with the rest of the field, even if it drives Porsche away.

After the IRL is buried - Sham Am is next on the hit list. Same cloth - different owner.

[FCYTravis]

You'll have a tough time burying a series that isn't reliant on factory bucks to make the wheels go round.

Alex Job said he wanted to run the full season, but was counting on the purse money from a Daytona win to go down to Mexico City. No win, no race. Hurts him in the title chase, and puts him out of contention for the 2007 Pacesetter bonus.

It's pretty clear right now that the Porsches have the proverbial "unfair advantage" and us Pontiac teams are hoping the series makes some changes, and quick. Otherwise, there's Plan B. No, sorry to disappoint you, Plan B isn't the ALMS.

I expect Long Beach to be a different story regardless. Downforce and torque will be everything there - two things the Porsche Crawford doesn't have and the Pontiac Riley does have. Not to mention that driver experience on street courses will be critical, given that total practice time is around one hour.

As of right now, Alex Job isn't even entered at the Beach.

[FCYTravis]

Wha-bam.

Porsches +75 pounds and a 9000-rpm rev limit (previously unlimited)
Pontiacs -25 pounds

Can't say Grand-Am don't act quick.

[BobN]

Seems too quick. The 02 Lexus dominated just 2 races ago. Sun Trust Pontiac & CGR Lexus dominated for nearly 2 years and GA took forever to "adjust". The hallmark was supposed to be rules stability. What happened? AJR comes to two events and is fastest and all Porsches get the hose?

That kind of stability is likely to cause concern to any team that puts the right package together.

[FCYTravis]

AJR turned laps a half-second quicker than any non-Porsche. Even Ganassi. In the race, it wasn't even really a contest, the 23 car just passed anyone it wanted to at will.

I think AJR showed too much too soon. If you go out and blow everyone's doors off, expect to get lead.

[Steve99]

Managed competition is so fun and exciting. :rolleyes:

[BobN]

AJR turned laps a half-second quicker than any non-Porsche. Even Ganassi. In the race, it wasn't even really a contest, the 23 car just passed anyone it wanted to at will.

I think AJR showed too much too soon. If you go out and blow everyone's doors off, expect to get lead.

So why not "adjust" the Porsche/Crawford only then? Why do all Porsches get the "adjustment"?

The Riley Lexus dominated in 2004. The Riley Pontiac in 2005. They (GA) didn't make race by race "adjustments" to them. The Fabcar/Porsche and Dorans and Crawfords all had to wait a substantial time for "adjustments" to be made. Why the "instant" penalty to Porsche when Pontiac and Lexus were granted near full seasons before "adjustments"?

[FCYTravis]

So why not "adjust" the Porsche/Crawford only then? Why do all Porsches get the "adjustment"?
Now that's a very good question. The Fabcar's getting the shaft here, no doubt.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Managed competition is so fun and exciting. :rolleyes:

And letting one car dominate come in and dominate the field is so much more fun to watch.

If Grand-Am left things as they were, by the end of the season there'd probably only be a dozen cars left on the grid. Apparently that is the proper way to run a series in the eyes of some people. :rolleyes:

[BobN]

If Grand-Am left things as they were, by the end of the season there'd probably only be a dozen cars left on the grid. Apparently that is the proper way to run a series in the eyes of some people. :rolleyes:

Why do you say that now? In both 2004 and 2005, each year was dominated by one car/team and the series still grew with other teams not headed to the gates.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Because I'd imagine it would be a bit cheaper to keep a Pontiac motor running than it would be a Porsche with no rev-limit. Not to mention having to replace your entire inventory of engines, and making the necessary modifications to your car to drop the engine in.

Though, I guess it isn't that bad if even Cheeber could afford it.

[BobN]

Because I'd imagine it would be a bit cheaper to keep a Pontiac motor running than it would be a Porsche with no rev-limit. Not to mention having to replace your entire inventory of engines, and making the necessary modifications to your car to drop the engine in.

Though, I guess it isn't that bad if even Cheeber could afford it.

Sean, you seem to miss (or avoid) my point. Why did GA do NOTHING to Lexus (all of 2004) and Pontiac (all of 2005) when they were dominating, but choose to nail Porsche after ONE victory?

Are you really trying to say that GA is NOW worried about cost containment for the Porsche engine (unlimited revs since day one)?

Who has to replace their entire inventory? In the sense of fair play for all the teams that have chosen Porsche they (GA) should grant those teams the same grace period as both Lexus and Pontiac teams were given (entire seasons).

Being as Grand am has dyno info on ALL the engines, how did they manage to screw up SO bad as to give Porsche such an advantage in this year's rules? Could it be that AJR with factory drivers and Cheever with Luhr driving are simply better? I haven't seen the OTHER Porsches running away from Pruett in the Lexus. Have you?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Sean, you seem to miss (or avoid) my point. Why did GA do NOTHING to Lexus (all of 2004) and Pontiac (all of 2005) when they were dominating, but choose to nail Porsche after ONE victory?

Are you really trying to say that GA is NOW worried about cost containment for the Porsche engine (unlimited revs since day one)?

Who has to replace their entire inventory? In the sense of fair play for all the teams that have chosen Porsche they (GA) should grant those teams the same grace period as both Lexus and Pontiac teams were given (entire seasons).

Being as Grand am has dyno info on ALL the engines, how did they manage to screw up SO bad as to give Porsche such an advantage in this year's rules? Could it be that AJR with factory drivers and Cheever with Luhr driving are simply better? I haven't seen the OTHER Porsches running away from Pruett in the Lexus. Have you?

Who says that Ganassi and Suntrust were dominating in those respective years? Of course better teams are going to end up in victory lane more often, but I don't know that it could necessarily be attributed to the equipment. Someone told me the reason for Ganassi's team falling off in '05 was because Grand-Am started limiting the number of sets of tires you can use in a race weekend.

Also, the Porsche engines were rev limited in 2003 and 2004, with the limit removed last year to try and speed up the Brumos cars. Honestly, I think the subpar performance of the Fabcar and drivers like J.C. France probably threw things off a bit, which led to this year's massive advantage for the Job team.

[BobN]

[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]Who says that Ganassi and Suntrust were dominating in those respective years? QUOTE]

The results. Both qualifying and race. :D

[BobN]

Honestly, I think the subpar performance of the Fabcar and drivers like J.C. France probably threw things off a bit, which led to this year's massive advantage for the Job team.

How far ahead of Pruett have the Donohue #58 and Synergy cars been running? The reality is that GA has now and has had for some time, the dyno numbers. AJR and the factory driver are what make the difference. The Cheever car (same EXACT platform as AJR) didn't run away at Mexico (the Lexus did).

After Pruett wins at Long Beach will you find it okay to "adjust" again? Perhaps they (GA) should allow the cars to run on a couple of DIFFERENT style tracks BEFORE making changes. OH, that right they did, in 2004 and 2005. :gomer:

[Sean O'Gorman]

[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]Who says that Ganassi and Suntrust were dominating in those respective years? QUOTE]

The results. Both qualifying and race. :D

Taylor/Angelelli only had two more wins than Pruett/Diaz did last year.

[BobN]

[QUOTE=BobN]

Taylor/Angelelli only had two more wins than Pruett/Diaz did last year.



Sean, give up while you're behind. :D

They penalize AJR after ONE win, but not either CGR or Suntrust until after full seasons. I can see how you think that is the way to make a level playing field for ALL. :gomer:

I'm sure Synergy and the rest of the Doran and Fabcar teams can understand and appreciate the fair treatment ALL are given.

[FCYTravis]

While y'all are bitching about the Porsche, the largest group of cars in the series are Pontiac-powered, and the Pontiacs clearly got the shaft in the offseason. They had *zero* chance against the Porsche, and this is going to bring them back into competition.

BobN, face it: Job went out and blew everyone out of the water. He let way, way too much sand out of the bag way, way too early. The results were totally predictable. Or did you think that Grand-Am was going to let one team be just about a full second ahead of the field for more than one race? I think he made a strategic error in showing all his cards.

Even money says we get an all-new winner at Long Beach. I'm biased, but I would not bet against the No. 99 ;) - with our new driver lineups it's only a matter of time.

[Sean O'Gorman]

[QUOTE=Sean O'Gorman]



Sean, give up while you're behind. :D

They penalize AJR after ONE win, but not either CGR or Suntrust until after full seasons. I can see how you think that is the way to make a level playing field for ALL. :gomer:

I'm sure Synergy and the rest of the Doran and Fabcar teams can understand and appreciate the fair treatment ALL are given.

Something tells me that no matter what answer I give, you're still going to find some way to criticize Grand-Am, so I'm done. Just know that if Grand-Am ends up chasing away all the Porsche teams from the series, they'll still be in good shape. Can the same be said if a single make was chased away in ALMS?

[Opposite Lock]

Even money says we get an all-new winner at Long Beach. I'm biased, but I would not bet against the No. 99 ;) - with our new driver lineups it's only a matter of time.

Is Jeemy in for Long Beach?

[NismoZ]

Jimmy in, though slower than Legge in testing, only 1 car from Rocketsports, but 2 promised for Houston, then perhaps no Jimmy. Appears to be big effort to maintain 18 at each festival. They'll get it done.

[NismoZ]

Oops....I thought you meant the real race.

[BobN]

While y'all are bitching about the Porsche, the largest group of cars in the series are Pontiac-powered, and the Pontiacs clearly got the shaft in the offseason. They had *zero* chance against the Porsche, and this is going to bring them back into competition.

BobN, face it: Job went out and blew everyone out of the water. He let way, way too much sand out of the bag way, way too early. The results were totally predictable. Or did you think that Grand-Am was going to let one team be just about a full second ahead of the field for more than one race? I think he made a strategic error in showing all his cards.

Even money says we get an all-new winner at Long Beach. I'm biased, but I would not bet against the No. 99 ;) - with our new driver lineups it's only a matter of time.

Travis, I agree in principle that AJR is better than everyone else. If it is Porsche that makes them that way, then the likes of Cheever, Brumos, Synergy, etc that are running Porsches and NOT dominating the REST of the field show that perhaps "adjustments" are handed out too quickly. Likewise perhaps they should not have penalized Pontiac teams because Suntrust is simply a better team than the other Pontiacs (except Gainsco of course ;) ).

The leveling of the field should take place ONLY using the fastest car of each make as a benchmark. I guess it will be a long time before GA listens to complaints from the other Porsche teams, when they have been shown not to be the measure of AJR. Now the problem comes down to, are teams like Finlay REALLY getting all that can be gotten from a Ford or if Rousch comes in and cleans up, do all the Ford team pay the price because they are not as good as Rousch? It may turn out that many teams are just not meant to be included in "anybody has a chance to win."

[BobN]

[QUOTE=BobN]

Something tells me that no matter what answer I give, you're still going to find some way to criticize Grand-Am, so I'm done. Just know that if Grand-Am ends up chasing away all the Porsche teams from the series, they'll still be in good shape. Can the same be said if a single make was chased away in ALMS?

Sean, the whole AJR, Suntrust, CGR vs. the rest scenario kinda blows a whole in the "everybody has a chance to win" argument that GA has used in trying to show how its MORE equal than ALMS. Penske vs Miracle than AJR vs Synergy? Audi vs Dyson different than CRG vs Tuttle?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Everybody has a chance to win, they just have to make the right opportunity. No one is saying that bad teams will be as good as the top teams under the DP formula, that would just be foolish. But there still exists the opportunity to put together the right team, drivers, chassis, and engine, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

[FCYTravis]

Is Jeemy in for Long Beach?
Last I heard, Jeemy was trying to work out scheduling issues between the Champ Car sessions, his PKV/CCWS business obligations and the Grand-Am deal. We will definitely have a second American open-wheel standout paired with Alex... whether or not it's Jeemy, I'm not sure yet :)

We really enjoy working with him, he's simply the consummate professional and his driving style mates very well with Alex's - they like exactly the same setups! He has a standing invitation to race with us anytime he can get the chance :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Last I heard, Jeemy was trying to work out scheduling issues between the Champ Car sessions, his PKV/CCWS business obligations and the Grand-Am deal. We will definitely have a second American open-wheel standout paired with Alex... whether or not it's Jeemy, I'm not sure yet :)

Sure sounds like alot of involvement for one lap of driving.... ;)

[NismoZ]

Gee, here's a huge surprise. The Porsche DPs get 75 lbs. added, and the 5.0 V-8s, like the Pontiacs, get to lose 25ibs. while the GT-3R Porsches are now limited to 9000 revs. Sounds like a logical tweak to me.

[FCYTravis]

Well, it's on the entry list now so I can spill the beans ;)

Rocky Moran, Jr. will join Alex Gurney in the No. 99 at Long Beach. :cool:

[NismoZ]

Ask Rocky if he really is interested in the CC Rocketsports ride? Houston?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Qual order at LB by engine:

1.Lexus
2.Porsche
3.Pontiac
4.Ford
7.BMW

by chassis:

1. Riley
2. Crawford
3. Riley
4. Crawford
11. Fabcar
12. Doran
25. Picchio

:gomer: :gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

[racer2c]

Gee, here's a huge surprise. The Porsche DPs get 75 lbs. added, and the 5.0 V-8s, like the Pontiacs, get to lose 25ibs. while the GT-3R Porsches are now limited to 9000 revs. Sounds like a logical tweak to me.

Sounds like NASCAR to me.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Oh, you mean successful?

[racer2c]

Oh, you mean successful?

Just like Budwieser. :)

[pchall]

Sounds like NASCAR to me.

Sounds like the in season race weight penalties and gifts that have screwed up sportscar racing in the past. DP has been around long enough now [unfortunately :rolleyes: ] that the disparity between haves and havenots has grown and the haves are invested enough to want to keep it all to themselves. The whining is starting.

[chop456]

Oh, you mean successful?

And your definition of success is that all the teams are happy despite the fact that there are 113 people at every race, right?

[Edit] Anyone find this whole deal ironic considering how far Porsche tried to distance themselves from this series in the first place?

[Skater_36]

Just like Budwieser. :)

Agree 100%. Success has different meanings to different people.

[Sean O'Gorman]

And your definition of success is that all the teams are happy despite the fact that there are 113 people at every race, right?

[Edit] Anyone find this whole deal ironic considering how far Porsche tried to distance themselves from this series in the first place?

There are only 113 people at Long Beach? ;)

I don't find it ironic; I simply see it as Porsche coming to their senses.